General NFL discussion thread

[Steve Raker]

  Don't misconstrue my comment.  I am not for headshots.  I think he should be fined but not suspended.  That is where I feel the NFL dropped the ball

  I would guess that every time Richard Seymour took a (cheap) shot on an opposing player you were the first to lead the charge to demand his retirement.   

So you are on the side that fighting should be removed from hockey as well?


the Tiki

Man up and make the tackle without going for the head, facemask or knees.  You might get run over, but that's because you're a defensive back and your linemen didn't make the tackle and let a runner through.  Harrison has a history and reputation, so they watch him close.  He knows that.  Adjust or hurt your team and your wallet.  Almost everyone else does.

Someday maybe we'll have a franchise named the Cou's (or the Contra Cou's).

As for hockey, at least they wear helmets now! (hell, even that's only 25 years old or so...crazy)

[InspectorSpacetime]

So you are on the side that fighting should be removed from hockey as well?

Sure, at the very least it should be limited by penalty eccelerator. But as we see with crosby and other players fighting is only one of the ways to get repeat head trauma in hockey. Quite frankly Crosby will be limited to the point that lindros was for the rest of his carrer.

 Don't misconstrue my comment.  I am not for headshots.  I think he should be fined but not suspended.  That is where I feel the NFL dropped the ball

the Tiki

Harrison is one of a handful of nfl players that continues to get into questionable plays. Maybe if he would stop running his mouth about the nfl they wouldn't be so focus on him. He and suh have been on thin ice for a while. If you want to run your mouth about the league you'd have better not give them a chance to sit you.

 I would guess that every time Richard Seymour took a (cheap) shot on an opposing player you were the first to lead the charge to demand his retirement.  
the Tiki

It was Harrison who threatend to retire last year because the league was out to get him. Richard Seymour is a dt. Linebackers and safety's are the players most effected by the nfls rule changes. In those positions the defensive player is coming at such a high rate of speed.

[aelfinn]

  Don't misconstrue my comment.  I am not for headshots.  I think he should be fined but not suspended.  That is where I feel the NFL dropped the ball

  I would guess that every time Richard Seymour took a (cheap) shot on an opposing player you were the first to lead the charge to demand his retirement.   

So you are on the side that fighting should be removed from hockey as well?


the Tiki

I couldn't condone the removal of fighting from hockey games as it's essentially been a part of the sport for as long as I can remember... and while I don't enjoy the fights much any more, I know that as a kid I loved seeing them.  I would be more in favor of bigger penalties & fines associated w/them I guess, but you can't remove fighting from that sport.

As far as headshots, as I see it regardless of the sport... there is no reason to go for someone's head unless you are trying to injure someone and/or end their career, unacceptable!  I'm all for suspensions & fines for headshots as a standard base and scale up with the severity of the offesnse.

As for the "watering down" talk, I think the games get watered down even more when some of the most impressive talent is sidelined due to unnecessary injuries.

[JimN]

I am so with you on this one.  I know I am an unapologetic Steelers fan but if you watched Harrison this season he has done his best to change his game.  He has done a great job with tackling.  I really think the fact that Colt McCoy's Daddy was crying it affected the NFL decision on a suspension.

If Harrison is being punished for this BS call then the Browns organization need to be fined for not following the NFL protocol as well.

This is complete bullshit.  We are witnessing the watering down of the NFL.

Wow, I don't know what play you guys were watching but that was NOT a clean hit. Harrison drove his helmet directly into McCoy's head, which was both illegal and completely unnecessary. Harrison was in perfect position to make a clean, hard hit on the play and chose to do otherwise. He had McCoy dead to rights. A fundamental tackle would have been easy in that situation. All he had to do was square up, wrap up and drive through. He's been warned about this stuff before so he deserves to be suspended.

I don't buy for a second that this particular instance is indicative of the NFL being watered down. What it indicates to me is the league's understanding that concussions and head injuries are an even more serious issue for football players than previously believed and they're determined to do something about it. Harrison knows the rules, he knows he's under scrutiny and he knows he shouldn't be leading with his helmet into another player's head like that. He did it anyway so he deserves the consequences.

[Lawrence]

Wow, I don't know what play you guys were watching but that was NOT a clean hit. Harrison drove his helmet directly into McCoy's head, which was both illegal and completely unnecessary. Harrison was in perfect position to make a clean, hard hit on the play and chose to do otherwise. He had McCoy dead to rights. A fundamental tackle would have been easy in that situation. All he had to do was square up, wrap up and drive through. He's been warned about this stuff before so he deserves to be suspended.

I don't buy for a second that this particular instance is indicative of the NFL being watered down. What it indicates to me is the league's understanding that concussions and head injuries are an even more serious issue for football players than previously believed and they're determined to do something about it. Harrison knows the rules, he knows he's under scrutiny and he knows he shouldn't be leading with his helmet into another player's head like that. He did it anyway so he deserves the consequences.

 

It would be one thing if this was Harrison's first incident but we all know that is not the case. Not only is he a repeat offender but he called out the commissioner during the off season as well. For some reason this guy just doesn't get it. I almost think its worse that the NFL is put in this position. I don't think they want to suspend a key player on a team that is making a push for the playoffs but at some point this guy has to figure it out.

[Wood]

The trend of trying to make the NFL a "safe" game belies the very nature of tackle football. 

Ironically, the commish is all about fines and suspensions on defenders, yet the league refuses to open bid for helmets, when it's widely known that there are PROFOUNDLY safer helmet technologies out there.

If the league is REALLY about improving player safety, they should focus on the bigger issues -- but since contracts and profits get in the way of that, they make examples of fierce defenders. 

[Jay Tomio - Part Deux]

I know we are in playoff race mode, but I'm thinking this year's draft and offseason is set up to be one of most interesting in awhile. With the new collective bargaining deal in place and a draft that features Luck an a couple of other QB's, not to mention the Colts still sitting with a Manning, I'm pretty interested in seeing what happens, especially with the Panthers coming in already with a what looks like a franchise QB sitting and a high pick.

Has the Jimmy Johnson draft trade graph been changed due to the collective bargaining agreement?

If for some reason Manning is moved, that team is almost instantly a playoff team (which relates to the discussion some of you are having above).

As a Detroit fan, I'm kind of worried about the injury to Leshoure because I've seen people that it's not an injury you see RBs come back from at full force (they come back, just not the same). I feel like if we had a Michael Bush-type the dynamic of our team would have been so different (up big against Minnesota and unable to shorten the game). I also feel like someone is going to overpay Avril (who is productive) so that may be a hole as well, along with our traditional weakness on the OL and an defensive backfield.

[Spigs]

Wow, I don't know what play you guys were watching but that was NOT a clean hit. Harrison drove his helmet directly into McCoy's head, which was both illegal and completely unnecessary. Harrison was in perfect position to make a clean, hard hit on the play and chose to do otherwise. He had McCoy dead to rights. A fundamental tackle would have been easy in that situation. All he had to do was square up, wrap up and drive through. He's been warned about this stuff before so he deserves to be suspended.

I don't buy for a second that this particular instance is indicative of the NFL being watered down. What it indicates to me is the league's understanding that concussions and head injuries are an even more serious issue for football players than previously believed and they're determined to do something about it. Harrison knows the rules, he knows he's under scrutiny and he knows he shouldn't be leading with his helmet into another player's head like that. He did it anyway so he deserves the consequences.

While I agree with your larger point, the hit was not in violation of the rules by the letter of the law, or at the very least it was close.  According to the rules a QB who leaves the pocket and acts like a runner can be treated like a runner. Helmet to helmet hits are not a penalty or a rules violation with regards to runners, only QB's and defenseless receivers.  Here McCoy took several steps outside of the pocket, actually tucked the ball and ran a few steps with it tucked, before pulling the ball back out and throwing it.  By tucking the ball and looking like he was running it puts the defender in a position where he has to treat the QB like a RB.

All of that having been said, I agree with you 100% that there is no reason Harrison couldn't have aimed slightly lower, made a form tackle, and none of this is an issue.  This is a guy who clearly likes to headhunt and just doesn't get it with regards to punishment.  I agree with punishing him with something more than a fine since that clearly isn't working, it's just unfortunate that it happened on a play which isn't nearly as cut and dry as some of his other incidents.

[JimN]

The trend of trying to make the NFL a "safe" game belies the very nature of tackle football. 

Ironically, the commish is all about fines and suspensions on defenders, yet the league refuses to open bid for helmets, when it's widely known that there are PROFOUNDLY safer helmet technologies out there.

If the league is REALLY about improving player safety, they should focus on the bigger issues -- but since contracts and profits get in the way of that, they make examples of fierce defenders. 

While I agree that the NFL should look into safer helmet technology, there's an argument to be made that the safety helmets provide now is what gives defenders the confidence to launch and use their head as a weapon instead of just making a fundamentally sound tackle.

Football will never be a safe game but just playing fundamentally sound instead of showboating and headhunting would go a long way toward player safety. It might lead to better football too!

Having said all that, the NFL takes the same half-assed approach to player safety that it takes with things like the Rooney Rule and the current instant replay system, both of which are more about placating people than actually accomplishing anything.

[JimN]

While I agree with your larger point, the hit was not in violation of the rules by the letter of the law, or at the very least it was close.  According to the rules a QB who leaves the pocket and acts like a runner can be treated like a runner. Helmet to helmet hits are not a penalty or a rules violation with regards to runners, only QB's and defenseless receivers.  Here McCoy took several steps outside of the pocket, actually tucked the ball and ran a few steps with it tucked, before pulling the ball back out and throwing it.  By tucking the ball and looking like he was running it puts the defender in a position where he has to treat the QB like a RB.

Technically, Harrison was in violation of the letter of the law because he made a helmet-to-helmet hit on a defenseless player who had just thrown a pass. The rules are here if you're interested in the details:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf

However...

All of that having been said, I agree with you 100% that there is no reason Harrison couldn't have aimed slightly lower, made a form tackle, and none of this is an issue.  This is a guy who clearly likes to headhunt and just doesn't get it with regards to punishment.  I agree with punishing him with something more than a fine since that clearly isn't working, it's just unfortunate that it happened on a play which isn't nearly as cut and dry as some of his other incidents.

It's still pretty cut and dried and since his intent was very clear so I guess I don't find the punishment for this play unfortunate at all. Harrison made an obvious choice to lead with his helmet and take a head shot and even if it had been legal, in that situation it was also a needlessly violent (and in my opinion, sleazy) move. He could easily have taken McCoy down with a hard, legal hit that would have still made a statement. I think going for the head was just plain wrong.

Jim

[thefreakytiki]

Having said all that, the NFL takes the same half-assed approach to player safety that it takes with things like the Rooney Rule and the current instant replay system, both of which are more about placating people than actually accomplishing anything.

I completely disagree.  If not for the Rooney Rule, Mike Tomlin would not be the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steeler but rather Ken Whisenhunt or Rus Grimm.  That has been well documented.


the Tiki

[JimN]

I completely disagree.  If not for the Rooney Rule, Mike Tomlin would not be the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steeler but rather Ken Whisenhunt or Rus Grimm.  That has been well documented.

I'm not suggesting the rule is useless, just that I think it's as much about PR as change. I'd actually prefer that it didn't exist at all, not because I'm against minority individuals getting head coaching jobs but because it leads to token interviews and creates unfair situations. However, that's another topic entirely...

The instant replay system bugs me a lot more anyway.

By the way, for the record, I'm glad Tomlin got that Steelers job. I wish the Vikings had dumped Childress after his first year and promoted Tomlin to head coach.

Jim

[Jo-El]

HA-HA!

It came out this morning that the reason Suh stomped on that Green Bay player's head is because that player was untying Suh's shoe after every play.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Former-Green-Bay-Packer-Matt-Brock-Evan-Dietrich-Smith-instructed-to-untie-Ndamukong-Suh-shoelaces-121511

Hillarious!

 

[JimN]

It was the Bizarro NFL today! The Colts won and the Packers lost. Crazy fun...

If only someone had told the Saints and Vikings it was Bizarro day. That game turned out pretty much as expected.

[InspectorSpacetime]

It was the Bizarro NFL today! The Colts won and the Packers lost. Crazy fun...

its funny how talking heads always talk out of both sides of their mouth saying the packers will go undefeated but theres parity. the packers had the lowest strength of schedule. the truth about football is that because the roster is 50+ players that you can scheme players out of the game. the bigger the roster- the less superstars can effect the outcome of a game. also the limited and weighted schedule means the teams aren't as far apart as you may think.

[judekill]

Oh Belichek I love you. Only Bill would ruin jesus' Sunday. 

[InspectorSpacetime]

[john_k]

It was Harrison who threatend to retire last year because the league was out to get him. Richard Seymour is a dt. Linebackers and safety's are the players most effected by the nfls rule changes. In those positions the defensive player is coming at such a high rate of speed.

"The latest patch totally nerfed my class. I quit."

[judekill]

Love it! Karma

[thefreakytiki]

.
Merry Christmas from the Pittsburgh Steelers!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/iEiRf1-xdOA&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/iEiRf1-xdOA&rel=1</a>

A few thoughts:

• The Defensive Line EASILY had the most fun doing this (They may have been drunk   )

• I will not comment on the Linebackers singing because I fear for my life if they do not agree.  

• The outtakes at the end were fun, especially the rookie gag at the very end.


the Tiki