General NFL discussion thread

[Kenney]

Sports talk today was THE WORST! Maybe I'm just out of touch, but so many analyst seem so short-sighted.

All the congratulations in the world go the Rogers and the Packers, however, today I've heard:

1. Talk of the Packers as a potential dynasty -- How about we just let them celebrate the fact that they won the biggest game of the year
2. Big Ben being talked up like he's washed up -- Dude has two rings -- TWO!!!! And he's not even 30 yet.
3. Aaron Rogers is now the best QB in the history of the world? Chill out. Wasn't this just Tom Brady 3 weeks ago?

I know the sport's media has to say things to get people talking, but geeee whiz. Lord knows I shouldn't watch ESPN's First Take, cause Skip Bayless is a certifiable shit-stirrer, but I couldn't help myself. 

I love Tomlin. His post game press conference stuff was ::gasp:: level headed and well thought out. I wish he was my team's coach.

[Wood]

Sports talk today was THE WORST! Maybe I'm just out of touch, but so many analyst seem so short-sighted.

All the congratulations in the world go the Rogers and the Packers, however, today I've heard:

1. Talk of the Packers as a potential dynasty -- How about we just let them celebrate the fact that they won the biggest game of the year
2. Big Ben being talked up like he's washed up -- Dude has two rings -- TWO!!!! And he's not even 30 yet.
3. Aaron Rogers is now the best QB in the history of the world? Chill out. Wasn't this just Tom Brady 3 weeks ago?

I know the sport's media has to say things to get people talking, but geeee whiz. Lord knows I shouldn't watch ESPN's First Take, cause Skip Bayless is a certifiable shit-stirrer, but I couldn't help myself. 

I love Tomlin. His post game press conference stuff was ::gasp:: level headed and well thought out. I wish he was my team's coach.

If we're going to take people to task for their fact checking, let's at least get Aaron Rodgers name right.

I listened to a fair amount of sports talk yesterday and didn't hear a lot of what you were talking about, so maybe it's a regional thing? What I heard was:

*** A recognition that the Packers won the Super Bowl with 17 players on IR. There have only been three other teams in the modern era with 15 or more IR players, and all finished 6-10 or worse. Add back Jermichael Finley, Morgan Burnett and others to this mix and they are CLEARLY one of the heavy favorites with a nice long window b/c most of their key pieces are young and signed to affordable deals

*** A recognition that Big Ben was being overrated because of the "all he does is win" schtick, and that now he's 2-1 in Super Bowls, and we can objectively say that he played TERRIBLY in one, OK in another, and well in a third. Ben is simply not, nor was he, in the elite category at his position, and now we can say that without the blinding (he's won 3 Super Bowls!) schtick. Keep in mind that Jim Plunkett won two Super Bowls, Ken Stabler won one, Trent Dilfer won one, etc...so let's start recognizing that a few rings, even for a QB, do not elite or HOF make.

*** A recognition that Aaron Rodgers was, statistically, as productive a QB as anyone else including Brady, Manning and Brees in the last few years but that a HUGE chunk of fandom will seemingly never give a guy his due until he has at least one ring. Now he has that ring, nothing is keeping the average Joe who doesn't do the work on his own to recognize he's among the elite. Rodgers was one of the NFL's 5 best QBs before Sunday, but now lots more people recognize that because of the bling.

[elemental]

keep in mind that Jim Plunkett won two Super Bowls, Ken Stabler won one, Trent Dilfer won one, etc...so let's start recognizing that a few rings, even for a QB, do not elite or HOF make.

Even Brad Johnson won one.... *runs away from the eagles fan*

[JimN]

Even Brad Johnson won one.... *runs away from the eagles fan*

Hey, Brad Johnson was a good QB!

Jim

[Robert]

Another example of a quarterback being in the right place at the right time despite their lack of abilities, Trent Dilfer with Ravens.

The team didn't even renew his contract the following season.

[Kenney]

If we're going to take people to task for their fact checking, let's at least get Aaron Rodgers name right.

Roger, Rodger, who's keeping score? The only guy with a name that sounds like that, is this dude.  

My bad, I'm terrible with names.

Wood, I think you make a bunch of fair points, though I take a different view on Ben. Well, maybe not totally different, but I don't care if the guy is elite or not. My team is the Colts, and I think nobody would argue Manning isn't an elite player, but I would trade his stat success for more championships in a second.

Thanks to his analyst role now, I've grown to really like Trent Dilfer, but I don't think he even belongs in the same sentence as Ben. Here in Baltimore, when Trent was the QB, the sentiment was "as long as he doesn't fuck up, the Ravens are good!" However, I don't think that's totally fair to the guy. Sure, he didn't put the team on his back to win the Superbowl, but he did what he could, with his talents, to help the team to a victory. But in my eyes, Ben is a much more vital part of his team's system and contributes to his team in as much of a meaningful way as anyone in the league. Maybe he isn't a stat-king, but he's a great fit for the Steelers. And I don't think it's a matter of just plugging a solid QB into that team, but I will leave that sort of conjecture for you more learned football folks.

About the sports talk, maybe I just was unlucky in what I was hearing, but it was just uber-hyperbolic side (though you could ask when isn't it?). Shit wore thin on a brother.

[tomkaters]

Now if Aaron Rodgers could just win a home playoff game (0-0) he will be elite. 

[Jeremy G]

Now if Aaron Rodgers could just win a home playoff game (0-0) he will be elite. 

Did you hear Colin Cowherd kiss his ass yesterday? Loved it.

[Wood]

Did you hear Colin Cowherd kiss his ass yesterday? Loved it.

I like that Rodgers held Cowherd accountable for his former comments, but did it with a sense of humor and didn't go in there with a lot of haterade, holding a grudge. 

[Christopher Stark]

1) The fact Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas are in the Hall tells you it's not an "Anti Buffalo" stance
2) Andre Reed is a compiler. I'm fine with him getting into the hall but he's hardly a no brainer. Consider:

*** # of times leading league in receptions (Zero)
*** # of times leading league in yards (Zero)
*** # of times leading league in TDs (Zero)
*** # of 1st Team All Pro selections (Zero)
*** 1,000-yard seasons (Four in 16 seasons)

Reed was a very good, but rarely elite, receiver.

Oh, I know its not anti-buffalo.  Bruce Smith and Marv Levy are there as well.  As a former Buffalonian, it's built in to complain about sports.  Every Stanley Cup I still think "No Goal"

And you make good points.  However, I can't see him getting nominated 6 times and still not making it.  At this point, either don't nominate the guy or just put him in.

[ValorPhoeniX]

sport talk radio is entertainment. thats all. they pick the side or narrative that makes the best radio. its no different the the line of the a game. the line of the game is not what the sharps will pick as the winner its what they think is the best number to draw in the most gambling.

as far as most sports talk on tv or radio it is just yelling. just remember the louder someone is the weaker they are.
i dont care for people talking over each other without any perspective. if you want to hear great sports talk just listen to tony kornhieser talking to another sportwriter on his podcast. frame the narritive, let the guest talk longform, ask smart questions and dont talk over.

[thefreakytiki]

So I gotta say, I had a weird self realization this past week.

At the end of Sunday night's game my Wife (someone who does not care about ANY sports team in ANY league) came up to me, kissed me on the head and whispered, "I'm sorry Honey".  I smiled weakly and said, "Hey, what are you gonna do.  Someone's gotta win and someone has got to lose".  She went to bed and I sat upon the couch replaying the whole game, every play, over and over in my head. 

The next morning I was awoken by my Daughter who told me she was Sorry that "our" team lost.  She handed me a quickly made card that said she loved me (She makes LOTS of cards).  She scurried off and had breakfast my Wife had been making her.

20 minutes later the pair came back into the bedroom to give me the daily ritual of goodbye kisses as they head off to work and school.  I obviously had the facial expression equivalent to Droopy because my Wife asked, "What's wrong, why do you look so sad?".  Completely dumbfounded by the question.  I told her it's because of yesterday's loss.  She shot me the least pitiful WTF look anyone could give and coldly stated, "Still?  That's done, get over it.".  She never meant any form of disrespect but rather she was commenting from a completely foreign place.

As they left, my first reaction was she has no idea what she was talking about.  She's not a sports fan.  She can't relate in any way.  As I say there trying to read the daily news headlines on my Ipad, I realized the results from the day before could not be avoided.  It didn't matter if I was on a Sports site, a generic news site or even some comic websites.  It was everywhere.

I started to accept that as a fan, it was over.  But more so than any play that I saw the day before, I kept hearing my Wife's comment ... "Still?  That's done, get over it.".  I began to dissect those words.  I began to wonder why, as sports fans we invest so much emotional equity into a team.  A team of men who wouldn't know me from anyone else walking down the street.  I mean watching sports is supposed to be escapism from the everyday cruelties and chores.  So, what happens when the distraction becomes the reality.

...


I began to realize that my despair and depression wasn't for the for the 53 players on the team.  It wasn't for the coaches or any other Steeler's employees.  I wasn't even bummed for the Rooney Family (Who I honestly admire). 

  I realized that when people talk about the Pittsburgh Steelers, everyone else hears Steelers while I hear Pittsburgh.  I was bummed for the city.  For my family and friends who still live there.  I was sad because their escapism was taken away.  An escapism that is within arm's reach.  These people that I speak of are strong, proud people.  People who made me who I am.

With that I grabbed my Pittsburgh Steelers pullover, pulled it over my head and it laid on my chest... with pride.


I am happy for the people of Wisconsin.  I have been to the state probably about 50 times and I know this victory brings great joy to them.  I just hope that next year, at XLVI we can raise our Iron City beer in unison with your Lienenkugels.   


the Tiki


(Thanks for letting me ramble )

[JimN]

Excellent post, Tiki.  I've had similar realizations over the years but take comfort (as your friends in Pittsburgh should) in the many Super Bowls the Steelers have already been in and won. Just imagine how fans of teams that have never even reached the Super Bowl feel or the pain of an old Vikings fan like myself. I watched my team reach the Super Bowl four times as a kid and lose every time. Since then, they've lost conference championships at home and away but they haven't returned to the Super Bowl since the mid-70s. There are Vikings fans who have never even seen the team play in a Super Bowl and fans of other teams (like the Browns and Lions) who can't say their team has been to the Super Bowl! The Steelers have had it good. That may seem like cold comfort after a Super Bowl loss but it should be comforting.

I definitely know what you mean about the people involved. Despite being a Vikings fan, I've lived in the Chicago area my entire life. As a kid, I hated the Bears because they were the Vikings rivals. As an adult, I still root against Chicago when they play the Vikes but the rest of the time, I root for them and I was really hoping they'd get to the Super Bowl this year because it would have made so many of my friends and loved ones happy.

We invest in these teams for fun but when you invest that much emotion into anything for years (or decades) it's bound to start meaning a lot to you, silly as that may seem. I'll be honest, if the Vikings ever do get to another Super Bowl, I don't even know if I could watch it. Unless they dominated the game from the start and blew out their opponent, I think it might actually be too nerve-wracking.

I understand how you felt on monday morning.

Jim

[Dave A]

Yeah... all it means is that you're a true-blooded fan of the game, Tim. 

People who don't love football don't get the passion... honestly, I don't completely get the passion, either. It's really silly when you step back from it and take a long look at yourself. But I don't know if I've ever been as elated, as angry, or as crushed over anything in my life as I've been over certain Redskins wins and losses. I've had break-ups that hurt less than regular season losses by crappy Redskins teams. And, when you stop to think about it, other than the fact that I watch all their games (not even at the stadium 99.99999% of the time! I've been to 2 games in my whole life!), I have nothing whatsoever to do with the team. So weird.

[thefreakytiki]

I've had break-ups that hurt less than regular season losses by crappy Redskins teams.

Bingo! Karma for the great perspective. 

Funny thing is, I have known the Steelers my whole life... I've known my wife for 12 years. 


The Tiki

[Dave A]

I thought about it some more... I think we get so emotionally invested in football because it appeals to the warlike aspect of human nature. Each game is a little battle in the overall season war. We root for particular players, sure, but we root for teams much more... colors, logos, cities; territory, flags. The game itself is about eating up territory as well, with long, precise, militaristic drives, physical battles of conquest. Bad losses become lifelong grudges. We've somehow stumbled upon a game that doesn't have human lives at stake but which allows us to play out our individual patriotisms on a weekly basis. A weekly war.

And nobody likes to lose a war. 

[Farrell]

So I gotta say, I had a weird self realization this past week.

Great post, Tim.

I had a realization of my own recently.  I have never, as a sports fan, felt what it's like to win it all.   I've peripherally followed teams that won things on some level.  When the Oregon State Beavers won the College World Series two years in a row, it made me happy.  When I followed Paul Molitor over to the Blue Jays and Joe Carter's home run launched them to a World Series Title, I smiled.

But the teams that I loved, that I followed for years through every win and loss and controversy and "get to know the players" article?  Never, in my lifetime of fandom, have they won.

I've come close.  My main team for the past 30 years, has been the Trailblazers.  I was on Earth for their one championship, but that's my dad's happy memory, not mine.  I was only six.  When they went to the finals twice in three years in the late 80's, early '90s, I was a rabid fan.  Hell, I even worked for them during that period.  And so I got to feel the crushing, hollow disappointment of the ultimate loss, but they never broke through.  In recent years, the chance to win it all feel like it's at the end of a dream hallway, receding further into the distance as you run toward it as first Greg Oden, and now Brandon Roy, suffer catastrophic injuries.

I'm not really anymore, but I was also a Mariners fan for a decade or more. Even when they won 116 games, they didn't reach the World Series.  I've been a Seahawks fan, and I got to feel my blood boil when they lost (with the help of some calls) to the Steelers a few years ago.  

Losing hurts.  Losing hurts more the more expectations have been raised, the higher one has to fall, so to speak, when the ultimate prize barely eludes our favorite teams' grasp.  And maybe those who live in cities like Pittsburgh and Boston and Los Angeles have felt that hurt more often because their teams are in the position to win it all more often, only to fail.  But I think I'd trade places with any of them for the chance to win just once.

[Jim B.]

I saw this and thought of The Tiki....

Happy Valentine's Day!   

[thefreakytiki]

I saw this and thought of The Tiki....

Happy Valentine's Day!   

 


It's ironic you post this.  My sister just revealed to me that her boyfriend broke up with her the day after the Superbowl.  They both live in Pittsburgh and she sees last weekend as the worst one ever.  How sucky is that? Oh life can be so cruel sometimes.  She'll be fine. 


The Tiki

[Jim B.]

It's ironic you post this.  My sister just revealed to me that her boyfriend broke up with her the day after the Superbowl.  They both live in Pittsburgh and she sees last weekend as the worst one ever.  How sucky is that? Oh life can be so cruel sometimes.  She'll be fine. 

I feel like an asshole.

That just blows.  Hope she's all right.