Jason Aaron says "fuck you Alan Moore"

[steve bryant]

I don't think we or Jason Aaron can judge Alan Moore for his comments about comics or the industry. His opinion is formed from his personal history with comics. Its not some abstract "I love reading comics and everything about comics" like I think most fans have the luxury of living. He is commenting on his life, his personal experiences. He has had, what he considers, horrible experiences with Marvel and DC and comics in general. He should be allowed to feel however the fuck he wants about that. Being one of the greatest writers in comics history doesn't mean he has to always go out and be a cheerleader for everything in the world of comics. He did his job, the industry has to take care of itself.

Related to this thought, I always appreciated the way that Jack Kirby publicly comported himself. Jack, who created more characters than anyone else in American comics, and who got a worse screwing than anyone in comics over copyrights and work-for-hire rights, never once pissed on the people who strip-mined his work for decades.

Methinks many professionals, myself included, could learn a thing or two from Jack about quiet professionalism in the information age.

[Night (Travis) Nurse]

It's just Aaron not getting the nod from his idol and taking it personally, even though he's not directly fingered as talentless by Moore.

Aaron has probably always had a fantasy that one day he'd get to meet Moore and get props from him. Probably played it over a million times in his head since he was a kid. Then this happens and it shattered his fantasy. That's what happens when you idolize people, they let you down. I met Frank Black from the Pixies once, I love the fucking Pixies and he was a huge asshole. Made me sad to meet the guy.

In the end who cares?

N Travis N

[VinceB]

Potty mouth.

Must be taking his cues from DAP.

 

[Jay Tomio]

It's just Aaron not getting the nod from his idol and taking it personally, even though he's not directly fingered as talentless by Moore.

Aaron has probably always had a fantasy that one day he'd get to meet Moore and get props from him. Probably played it over a million times in his head since he was a kid. Then this happens and it shattered his fantasy. That's what happens when you idolize people, they let you down. I met Frank Black from the Pixies once, I love the fucking Pixies and he was a huge asshole. Made me sad to meet the guy.

In the end who cares?

N Travis N

On the other hand, I ran into Mr. Belding in a club once and he left with two young fine hoes with him on each arm (and I use the word "hoes" as being an apt description of the college girls, one of whom I knew passingly).

[David]

1) They don't command the attention of the modern fan as much as Moore does/should
2) Moore is more apt to speak his mind in a media venue that will get broad reach, whereas those other guys generally mouth off in the comfort of their own environments
3) Usually those other guys limit their comments, as far as I can recall, against the powers-that-be, versus besmirching those creating the books or their fans
4) Miller, Adams and Byrne may be Hall of Famers, but Moore is Michael Jordan

It's all much ado from where I'm sitting.

Someone said something that pisses off someone else.  Or makes them wonder what that person was smoking when they said it.

In this case, with these two gentlemen, it doesn't change how I feel about them or their work.

It's been months since Moore's interview was let loose into the wild.  I know Aaron was recapping the year and focusing on one particular bad moment for him, but it strikes me as, "Really, you're bringing this up now?".  Which is his right.

Choosing sides over it baffles me a bit, though.  So I'll be over here with Scott C. and Dave A.

Must be taking his cues from DAP.

Oh, go eff yerself.

[LA Rabbit]

[Alan Moore's] opinion is formed from his personal history with comics. Its not some abstract "I love reading comics and everything about comics" like I think most fans have the luxury of living. He is commenting on his life, his personal experiences. He has had, what he considers, horrible experiences with Marvel and DC and comics in general. He should be allowed to feel however the fuck he wants about that.

Karma for this part of your quote.  I am sure that most of us have been jobbed before.  Alan Moore has a public forum that most of us don't have (or at least as many eyes on it) so he mouthed off.  I can't blame the guy.  You may think that he was treated well or not treated well by the Big Two, but I think we can empathize with the feeling of getting screwed.  If you can't, then you had an awesome life and I am hella jealous. 

Where Alan Moore's and my situation greatly vary is that his dirty laundry was aired for the public.  My professional beefs are largely unknown¹.  Whether right or wrong, he also seemed extra mad by the way the DC decided to use Dave Gibbons as a way to communicate with him, using that goodwill to achieve their means.  Maybe he hates everyone and everything or maybe it was just a touchy topic but I cut the dude some slack.  Should he have held his tongue, probably, but I am sure that would not have made the interviewer happy.

So maybe Moore has some bitterness and lashes out.  Aaron is free to never buy any of Alan Moore's stuff as well.  I am not holding that against him either.  Aaron surely has his professional pride and has a column to fill.  If he wants to get his back, how does it hurt?  It might piss off a small fraction of potential future customers, but more likely it will get him lots of ink (look at this thread alone), and that is good publicity. 

¹Frequently even by the other side.

[Julian Lytle]

1) They don't command the attention of the modern fan as much as Moore does/should
2) Moore is more apt to speak his mind in a media venue that will get broad reach, whereas those other guys generally mouth off in the comfort of their own environments
3) Usually those other guys limit their comments, as far as I can recall, against the powers-that-be, versus besmirching those creating the books or their fans
4) Miller, Adams and Byrne may be Hall of Famers, but Moore is Michael Jordan

Well I'd say in the big scheme of things Frank Miller, in public perception equals Moore. Let's be real here His Batman is the Batman. It's the Batman used the most. His Sin City is also well regarded as a comic and film. 300 made Zack Synder an A-Lister. Miller directed a Gucci commercial. GUCCI.
GUCCI
The older I become I don't see Moore as the absolute best. Unlike Basketball we are talking world wide. I really can't say that I feel Moore is better than Mobieus or Otomo.That might be personal bias because alot of what he writes these days I have no want to read. But I think comparing him to Jordan, who by all accounts is respected as the best by fans and peers in all of Pro Basketball is to me not a good comparison.

[William Joseph Dunn]

"But I guess all I've done is let the old man down."

cue Artie Lang saying: "waaah, love me daddy!"

[lawnbuddha]

Just because Moore's comments were inflammatory doesn't make them any less true. I agree with all of the folks who point out that Jason Aaron's knee-jerk reaction seems to have taken Moore's comments out of context. I did not interpret Moore as saying that there were no good creators in comics, just that the Big Two's claims (or Gibbons' claims vis a vis the Big Two) of having "top tier creators" working on these stories sounded ridiculous.

Moore made a call to arms for creators that I think was very similar to Kirkman's. Now it remains to be seen who will take up that call and who will cry about it.

Or on the other hand he could be saying all creators are equal? It's the act of creation and the results there of, that count?

I haven't seen anyone on here, Bleeding Cool or CBR make this point...interesting take!

[lawnbuddha]

deleted

[JohnBoman]

It's been months since Moore's interview was let loose into the wild.  I know Aaron was recapping the year and focusing on one particular bad moment for him, but it strikes me as, "Really, you're bringing this up now?".  Which is his right.

Choosing sides over it baffles me a bit, though.  So I'll be over here with Scott C. and Dave A.

Well, when I started the thread I never really wanted it to be a Aaron vs Moore, which in reality is counter-productive. We keep reading the work these boys put out and get what we get from them. But I was just baffled by the outburst about an interview that came out months ago (misinterpreted by Aaron but that's my opinion!), in a column that is supposed to be about breaking into comics and how to become a professional in the comicbook field.


I really think the guy should have held off before hitting "send."

[judekill]

"I really can't say that I feel Moore is better than Mobieus or Otomo.That might be personal bias "
Mobeius &   Otomo, Julian you can rest assured that those examples are clearly and definitively  a case of personal bias.

[AztecLos]

I think Jason Aaron should has chosen his words more careful as not to have people come down on him for what he said.

I do think Alan More shouldn't make any comments of his own about creators he doesn't know. And about books he doesn't read. 


@tomkaters "Can't we get Alan Moore to go after George Lucas?"

[Spooky]

Miller directed a Gucci commercial.

Burr.

GUCCI.

Burr!

GUCCI

BURR!

[Jeppe]

While I can appreciate (and identify with) Moore's frustration with the way that the business is handled, in terms of franchising characters and building upon that which went before, his dismissive attitude toward the creators who are working under these parameters is way off base.

We no longer consume our entertainment the way we did when Moore was working with DC. Newsstand distribution is gone, but is that any different than the differences in the television industry? What was once an advertising-driven field (TV), is now just as driven by sales of the IP on DVD and downloads.  Everything is consumed differently, and everything is marketed toward specific niches—even the news, for that matter. Somewhere, you can find a news outlet that interprets the information of the day in a way that reflects your own bias, be it Fox, MSNBC, Politico, Salon, HuffPo, BigGovernment, etc. I strikes me as incredibly naive of Moore to expect comics to function any differently.

And calling out his peers* as being creatively bankrupt is amazingly silly and somewhat self-involved. Were it not for Dick Giordano's trepidation about "throwing his babies to the wolves," after reading Moore/Gibbons' brilliant pitch for Who Killed Peacemaker, Moore's most revered work would not have existed—at least not in the form that we know it by today.

Just imagine, 24 years ago, we could have had Steve Ditko opining, "Could they [DC] not get one of the ‘top-flight industry creators' to come up with an idea of their own?  Why are DC Comics trying to exploit comic books that I wrote and drew 20 years ago if they have got anything?  Sure they ought to have had an equivalent idea since?" about Moore and Gibbons' original pitch.

I understand Aaron's anger, but wonder if a public proclamation will be something that he'll regret down the line.

*Yes, I believe that Alan Moore has peers, and that's not an insult to the man's tremendous accomplishments.

Well said!   This is exactly how I feel about this whole messy affair.

The older I become I don't see Moore as the absolute best. Unlike Basketball we are talking world wide. I really can't say that I feel Moore is better than Mobieus or Otomo.That might be personal bias because alot of what he writes these days I have no want to read. But I think comparing him to Jordan, who by all accounts is respected as the best by fans and peers in all of Pro Basketball is to me not a good comparison.

This is also very true. I really do love the majority of Alan Moore's work, but I am sometimes surprised by the absolute deification the man receives by many (especially Anglo-American) comic fans. Why do we have to single out one person as the best writer ever? This is not a sport like Basketball, with pretty clearly defined ways to measure talent, but an inherently subjective art form with a plethora of styles and genres. Hopefully we can all agree that there are not one or two but many fantastic novelist, painters, and film directors, so why the need to single out one person in the comics medium?

By stating over and over again that Moore is the best writer the medium has ever seen, I do think we are to some extent insulting the talents of people such as Moebius, Jodorowsky, Enki Bilal, Carl Barks, Osama Tezuka, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison. And before anyone complains that any or all of these writers are so far below Moore's caliber that they should not even be mentioned alongside him, please read over that part about this being a subjective art form again.

[David]

I laffed:

[0157h7]

Jason Aaron was right to say what he said. Alan Moore has become a self important cunt that says shit about things he has never read. He is constantly running down anyone who is a current writer. He thinks that his work his sacred and no one should be able to write in that universe but he had no problem writing stories people in other people's created universes.

Is Alan Moore perhaps the greatest comic writer of all time? Sure. Is he an insufferable prick? Hell yes, and he has no right to run other people down the way he has/does.

[Former Poet Laureate]

Aaron comes off as  ridiculously thin-skinned in this. Seriously, Moore isn't interested in reading Deadpool? I'm stunned.

Aaron needs to realize he writes for his audience, not the approval of Alan Moore.  I would say Aaron's audience very much approves of his work - what else matters, really?

[MikeFarley]

Newsflash: Alan Moore says "Who is Jason Aaron?"

[Tempo House]

I am really having a problem seeing what is so offensive about Moore's comments. Yeah he does say that thing about the industry not even having bottom-flight talent, but I read that more as something he blurted out while he was on a rant. Obviously he has been very frustrated about this whole Watchmen affair and he does not want to cheapen his work by having it wired into the typical industry trappings (the prequel, the sequel). He wants the work to stand on its own and to be left alone, and I think he has every right to feel that way and become unhappy about the way DC is just not letting it go.

Incidentally, I agree that DC needs to leave Watchmen alone.  Not everything has to be exploited to the bone.

I also see his comment on "let the top flight talent [apparently he does think there are top flight talents in the industry] come up with their own stories".  In fact, his comment

Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago.  It shouldn’t be too big an ask, should it?  I wouldn’t have thought so.  And it would solve an awful lot of problems.  They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago.  It would be insulting to think that there weren’t.

almost makes the exact opposite point that Jason Aaron thinks Moore is making.

I think Aaron was being overly sensitive.  Moore's truly pissed off and if there is anyone in this industry who has earned the right to be pissed off and cranky ("get off my lawn"), it's gotta be Alan Moore.  You bite your tongue if you must and let him be.

I do disagree with Moore on the Marvelman/Miracleman issue. I would love to see Marvel reprint those so that an entirely new generation of readers get the chance to enjoy his work.

By the way ... someone commented on whether Moore was angry with Gaiman following up on Miracleman. He was very clearly not.  I have even seen him comment that he thought Gaiman's story with Andy Warhol was his (= Gaiman's) best work. 

Miracleman is a separate story though. So is Moore's work on Superman, Swamp Thing, etc.  They were not his creation. Watchmen was his creation. He is allowed to feel a special sense of ownership with those characters.