Jason Aaron says "fuck you Alan Moore"

[Lukeh]

Imagine this...

What if Alan Moore decided to open a school like Joe Kubert for writers.  Wouldn't that go farther in changing the way comics are written rather than just passing judgement?

It is really easy to critique anyone... But it's really hard to teach someone how to do something correctly. 


The Tiki

Judging only bye the interviews and comments he has given over the last few years, I would assume the only thing someone graduating from that school would leave with would be a bad attitude.

[judekill]

Imagine this...

What if Alan Moore decided to open a school like Joe Kubert for writers.  Wouldn't that go farther in changing the way comics are written rather than just passing judgement?

It is really easy to critique anyone... But it's really hard to teach someone how to do something correctly. 


The Tiki

Tiki this is may not be new info but Moore did write a small book(more like a pamphlet)
 called "Alan Moore's Writing For Comics" it was published by Avatar Press with art by Jacen Burrows.

[thefreakytiki]

Tiki this is may not be new info but Moore did write a small book(more like a pamphlet)
 called "Alan Moore's Writing For Comics" it was published by Avatar Press with art by Jacen Burrows.

To write a book is admirable... To be on the front line molding brains on a daily basis is legendary.


The Tiki

[Julian Lytle]

To write a book is admirable... To be on the front line molding brains on a daily basis is legendary.


The Tiki

I still don't get why he has to do that.

[thefreakytiki]

I still don't get why he has to do that.

He doesn't HAVE to do it.  I am just commenting on a line of actions that would have been more productive for his cause. 



the Tiki

[Inazuma Tiger]

Emotional resonance? If that's what you want from your art then go watch Lifetime or a Hallmark special or something. There's much more potential in art than just the ability to tug heartstrings. A 30 second commercial can do that! Often the easiest thing to do is to manipulate emotions- just place a child or animal in jeopardy and people will emotionally "connect" to it, but that doesn't mean it belongs on a level with The Creation of Man or a Bergman film. And yes, Moore's comics DO hold up to that standard, at least when compared to the rest of the entire history of the comics medium.

I really do enjoy Scalped but I'm not so sure it's not much more than a really well-crafted work of fiction that could have also been a really good novel or HBO series without missing much (and I LOVE Guerra's inky art). Most of Moore's works could ONLY be comics and I think that's his main gripe when judging other artists in the industry- too many are just stories that happen to be illustrated. Moore's preference for stuff like Love and Rockets or Acme Novelty Library over issue #??? of some random Big 2 comic are pretty well known. I think arguing that he isn't correct is like arguing that the painting in the hotel room is as good as anything by Gustave Klimt (and nothing is as good as Klimt!). One was hacked out for sheer commercial purposes while the other strives for something... Moore  

Yup, yup! Agreed, J-Willy.

[Julian Lytle]

He doesn't HAVE to do it.  I am just commenting on a line of actions that would have been more productive for his cause. 



the Tiki

I like the term-"Step your game up!"

[steve bryant]

Emotional resonance? If that's what you want from your art then go watch Lifetime or a Hallmark special or something. There's much more potential in art than just the ability to tug heartstrings. A 30 second commercial can do that! Often the easiest thing to do is to manipulate emotions- just place a child or animal in jeopardy and people will emotionally "connect" to it, but that doesn't mean it belongs on a level with The Creation of Man or a Bergman film. And yes, Moore's comics DO hold up to that standard, at least when compared to the rest of the entire history of the comics medium.

I really do enjoy Scalped but I'm not so sure it's not much more than a really well-crafted work of fiction that could have also been a really good novel or HBO series without missing much (and I LOVE Guerra's inky art). Most of Moore's works could ONLY be comics and I think that's his main gripe when judging other artists in the industry- too many are just stories that happen to be illustrated. Moore's preference for stuff like Love and Rockets or Acme Novelty Library over issue #??? of some random Big 2 comic are pretty well known. I think arguing that he isn't correct is like arguing that the painting in the hotel room is as good as anything by Gustave Klimt (and nothing is as good as Klimt!). One was hacked out for sheer commercial purposes while the other strives for something... Moore  

Yup, yup! Agreed, J-Willy.

Do you guys have trouble sitting with those sticks lodged so far up there?    

[thefreakytiki]

I like the term-"Step your game up!"

That's great... How about the phrase - "actions speak louder than words"?

His actions through teaching could go a lot further than his words.  Seriously, what comic book creator in training wouldn't want to learn from a master? 



The Tiki

[Inazuma Tiger]

Do you guys have trouble sitting with those sticks lodged so far up there?    

Nope. Helps my posture. LOL!

[katang]

Do you guys have trouble sitting with those sticks lodged so far up there?    

I'm jumping into this conversation waaay late, and I may just be rehashing what has already been said... but Alan Moore is a true master and has every right to complain about the industry.  However, it really is no different than most other art forms.  There are way more films or novels that just try to grab some quick cash or tell a decent, entertaining story.  Nothing wrong with that, but it is also nice to have works out there that push the envelope and challenge the medium and the viewer/reader.  There is room for both, but, to Alan Moore's point, there is not enough of the latter in the comic book industry.

BTW, I love Scalped and Athena Voltaire AND Watchmen.

[steve bryant]

I'm jumping into this conversation waaay late, and I may just be rehashing what has already been said... but Alan Moore is a true master and has every right to complain about the industry.  However, it really is no different than most other art forms.  There are way more films or novels that just try to grab some quick cash or tell a decent, entertaining story.  Nothing wrong with that, but it is also nice to have works out there that push the envelope and challenge the medium and the viewer/reader.  There is room for both, but, to Alan Moore's point, there is not enough of the latter in the comic book industry.

BTW, I love Scalped and Athena Voltaire AND Watchmen.

You're absolutely right. I'm concerned that you quoted me before saying that. Have I given the impression that I believe anything but that Alan Moore is a true master?  If so, that was certainly not my intent.

[Lukeh]

It doesn't matter how good Moore and Aaron are, they both should not of said the thngs they said. Moore should not say 50% plus of the things he says. They are like a group of women in dressing tons botching over the back yard fence. Unfortunatly we live in an age where the Internet is that fence.

Besides I seriously doubt Moore has even read more then one or two Marvel or DC/Vetigo books in the last 10 years to make such a blanket comment. The man is talking out of his arse and has been for a while, and Aaron needs to tuck in his pantyhose and see it as such. How a 13 year girl is writing Scalped I have no idea.

[JimN]

Emotional resonance? If that's what you want from your art then go watch Lifetime or a Hallmark special or something. There's much more potential in art than just the ability to tug heartstrings.

Yes, there is but emotional resonance doesn't necessarily equate to "cheap melodrama".

Often the easiest thing to do is to manipulate emotions- just place a child or animal in jeopardy and people will emotionally "connect" to it, but that doesn't mean it belongs on a level with The Creation of Man or a Bergman film. And yes, Moore's comics DO hold up to that standard, at least when compared to the rest of the entire history of the comics medium.

It's that kind of hyperbole regarding Moore's work that drives me nuts. The comics medium doesn't consist of Alan Moore and then everybody else. He's not the only comics writer to produce work of significance and frankly, I think his reputation has been being steadily over-inflated since Watchmen was published back in the '80s. Long-time comic fans (particularly superhero fans), desperate for approval and recognition for their favorite genre and medium, finally had a story they could point to as a sophisticated, intelligent representative of their medium and they've been running with it ever since.

I like Moore but enough is enough. The man's a comics master but he's far from the only comics master.

Jim

[Dave A]

For a man who takes pride in being a wordsmith and knowing full well words are powerful.. That skill may not be in his arsenal anymore.   

I've seen this sentiment stated a few times...

Being a writer and understanding the power of language doesn't mean that you carefully choose every single word that comes out of your mouth.

I'm not saying he didn't mean what he said, but treating a response to an interview question like a carefully crafted essay is a mistake in my opinion.

[Farrell]

Yes, there is but emotional resonance doesn't necessarily equate to "cheap melodrama".

Karma!

It's that kind of hyperbole regarding Moore's work that drives me nuts. The comics medium doesn't consist of Alan Moore and then everybody else. He's not the only comics writer to produce work of significance and frankly, I think his reputation has been being steadily over-inflated since Watchmen was published back in the '80s. Long-time comic fans (particularly superhero fans), desperate for approval and recognition for their favorite genre and medium, finally had a story they could point to as a sophisticated, intelligent representative of their medium and they've been running with it ever since.

I like Moore but enough is enough. The man's a comics master but he's far from the only comics master.

aaaaand Karma!

[Dave A]

It's that kind of hyperbole regarding Moore's work that drives me nuts. The comics medium doesn't consist of Alan Moore and then everybody else. He's not the only comics writer to produce work of significance and frankly, I think his reputation has been being steadily over-inflated since Watchmen was published back in the '80s. Long-time comic fans (particularly superhero fans), desperate for approval and recognition for their favorite genre and medium, finally had a story they could point to as a sophisticated, intelligent representative of their medium and they've been running with it ever since.

I like Moore but enough is enough. The man's a comics master but he's far from the only comics master.

I agree with you... but I think Moore so often gets the GOAT label because he's got that rarest combination of critical acclaim and commercial success, and has had for a very healthy period of time.

It's kinda like the Beatles... there have been a lot of great bands over the years, but the Beatles almost always get the GOAT vote because they were not only very good, but managed to be very good while also being the biggest band in the world for close to a decade.

[JimN]

I agree with you... but I think Moore so often gets the GOAT label because he's got that rarest combination of critical acclaim and commercial success, and has had for a very healthy period of time.

I agree. I think that's part of it and I think his versatility plays a role too and don't underestimate the fact that he's written his share of superheroes. That goes a long way with American audiences.

It's kinda like the Beatles... there have been a lot of great bands over the years, but the Beatles almost always get the GOAT vote because they were not only very good, but managed to be very good while also being the biggest band in the world for close to a decade.

I see your point but when was the last time Moore had serious commercial success in comics? I'm actually asking because I have no idea.

Jim

[Dave A]

I see your point but when was the last time Moore had serious commercial success in comics? I'm actually asking because I have no idea.

I don't know if his recent stuff has been tearing up the charts or not... but Lost Girls did quite well considering it was a porno, and a LOT of people discovered V for Vendetta and Watchmen for the first time a couple years ago. His most well known works still move product.

[JimN]

I don't know if his recent stuff has been tearing up the charts or not... but Lost Girls did quite well considering it was a porno, and a LOT of people discovered V for Vendetta and Watchmen for the first time a couple years ago. His most well known works still move product.

True... I think it must be a combination of all those factors we mentioned that accounts for his GOAT reputation.

Jim