Jason Aaron says "fuck you Alan Moore"

[Tempo House]

You mad cause he couldn't give a fuck about your skills? Really?

Do we know if Alan Moore has read any of Jason Aaron's work or is even aware that Jason Aaron exists?

[Tempo House]

If Michael Jordan came out and said their are no top tier basketball players in the league today or even any second tier players, you don't think someone would call him out on it?

I think old sports figures routinely say things like that and they are usually well-tolerated.  Michael Jordan is a tad too young to be able to get away with that though. With Chamberlain or Bill Russell though? Now I don't know if those two have personally done that but if they had come out and said "today's kids don't know the first thing about rebounding", most people would go "Yessir. You are awesome, sir." The more grainy the film of your playing days, the more likely people will agree with you, whether they really do or not.

Michael Jordan's day will come in about two more decades, I think.

[Tempo House]

Aaron shouldn't have written the column
Moore shouldn't have said what he said

To be fair, Aaron had time to review and edit what he wrote.
Moore was being recorded as he was speaking.

[Jordan]

I was unaware that Moore can't walk and talk at the same time.....

[aceguitarist3]

Hmmm....Being relatively new to comics, I can say this: I know who Alan Moore is, and I have no idea who Jason Aaron is. Even though I never read anything Moore wrote (I know, I know...they're on my list) I know what Moore has written and has accomplished for the medium and how respected he is.

But "Moore shouldn't have said that/Aaron shouldn't have wrote this" does not seem like a logical response to all this (no offense to Wood). I would say that it is Moore who shouldn't have said that. I mean, from what I understand, Moore does not think there is a talented writer out there today, right? Ok, so he made his opinion.

Now if I came in this forum and said: "Allan Moore hasn't written one relevant story for comics", I would get a serious verbal beatdown. But who am I? You guys can see by the posts I've made, my karma number: I'm pretty new here. I'm new to comics, been reading for close to 4 years. You guys can dismiss me as a nobody, not knowing enough to say something that strong.

The problem I see here is that Allan Moore is somebody. He has a reputation. He is a very respected and highly accomplished writer. So when he says something like there is no talent today, that kind of statement means something. He isn't some rookie writer. This is Allan Moore telling every writer out there: to me, none of you guys are good enough.

Whoa. That's harsh. That shouldn't be said by anyone. That especially shouldn't be said by someone in his position. There's a difference if we consider you to be the best writer and you acting like you already know that you are. It's guys like Jason Aaron that made you as popular as you are.

Now if Jason Aaron hadn't stepped up and said what he said, would we be almost 10 pages into this thread? Probably not. But he spoke his mind. He didn't appreciate Moore's comment and I think it was brilliant for him to write about it. Does Allan Moore get a free pass because he is Allan Moore? Come on. I'm sure Aaron wasn't the only writer who felt that way, he was just the first to say something about it. It's not fair to say that Aaron should not have wrote that article. Was he supposed to just sit there and take it? 

So in conclusion, I agree with you Wood: Allan Moore should not have said what he said.
But I think Jason Aaron is a champ for writing that column.

[Joe Willy]

Alan's basically saying "You think you're good. Come up with your own stuff."

"Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago. "

Maybe times have changed but once upon a time artists respected other artists, especially ones that are better/more established. There was a big reaction in the comics industry against John Byrne when he sided with Marvel against Jack Kirby who wanted his old art back. Steve Gerber even satirized him as the ultimate "company man" in Destroyer Duck, drawn by Jack Kirby as a legal fundraiser. I actually think that's when Byrne started his downhill slide as an artist and a human being.

I don't know... If a guy's my idol and he says he doesn't want a sequel to one of his greatest works shouldn't you respect that? Sure, Alan Moore's a bit too flippant. But I agree that comics keeps rehashing old stuff- how many MORE times do we need to see Spider-Man's origin retold????- and the best comics that reach out to the REAL mainstream are NOT coming out from Marvel or DC but from Oni and smaller publishers who push the envelope and don't continually push one tiny little genre above all others.

As a fan, I'd just rather not support someone who so blatantly insults me and my friends.

WHAAAA!!! Alan Moore doesn't know who I am. Boo hoo! 

Seems to me like Aaron is ignoring the critical point of what Moore is really mad about (for one, the fact Watchmen copyright was supposed to revert back to him after 10 years). And instead of respecting his wishes to at least leave it alone it seems like the suits at DC who are personally offended by Moore's reaction to their treatment of him and his work seem to be intentionally thumbing their noses at him. Aaron just completely blows past that point on his way to carry out a vendetta for being personally insulted. It also seems like he's being a bit of a "company man" and ignoring Moore's concerns because in venting his spleen he took a shot at Aaron.

I guess 2011 is the year I stopped caring about whether Jason Aaron cares about Alan Moore. And it seems like too many of the comments I read here should have just said: "I think Alan Moore is over-rated and his stories make my head hurt so I'm siding with Aaron."

[Julian Lytle]

"I really can't say that I feel Moore is better than Mobieus or Otomo.That might be personal bias "
Mobeius &   Otomo, Julian you can rest assured that those examples are clearly and definitively  a case of personal bias.

I know that, but why do you think he is the overall best? Don't you feel that this opinion is a totally western bias. And really just a US/England bias? When it's stated that he's the best ever, EVER. In all of comics the more I think of it the more I find faults. I love Watchmen, I have the Absolute-first printing, I can't say I like it more than Akira and Calvin and Hobbes. I can't say I love LoEG more than Snoopy finding his family in Peanuts. I can't to me that V for Vendetta is better than Doonsberry in the 80s. To me the For the Man Who Has Everything is great but so is that Mobeius Silver Surfer book. I think to call him the best I really think it should be agreed upon by a wider audience than just American comic book readers. Maybe the term that should be used is best American Comic book writer ever, cause that might be what he really is, and not the G.O.A.T.

Burr.Burr!BURR!

IT'S GUCCI TIME!





Also for those that don't know you should look up Jordan's Hall of Fame speech, he doesn't say all the new kids suck, but he does make it clear that to him he can still bust a lot of asses on the court right now.

And I believe him.

[Kenney]

I think to call him the best I really think it should be agreed upon by a wider audience than just American comic book readers. Maybe the term that should be used is best American Comic book writer ever, cause that might be what he really is, and not the G.O.A.T.

Well, it is a pretty wide audience, because it's American and a good chunk of European readers.  But I think it sort of goes without saying that when he's called the greatest, it is in respect to western comics.

Still, if you're ever good enough to even be in the discussion of G.O.A.T. status, you're fine. There is never EVER going to be a consensus of who is the greatest of anything, with few exceptions, so debating who does and doesn't deserve the crown is a little fruitless (albeit fun).

[JimN]

Now if Jason Aaron hadn't stepped up and said what he said, would we be almost 10 pages into this thread? Probably not. But he spoke his mind. He didn't appreciate Moore's comment and I think it was brilliant for him to write about it. Does Allan Moore get a free pass because he is Allan Moore? Come on. I'm sure Aaron wasn't the only writer who felt that way, he was just the first to say something about it. It's not fair to say that Aaron should not have wrote that article. Was he supposed to just sit there and take it? 

Honestly, that's exactly what I think he should have done and I'm not exactly a Moore-worshipper. I think Moore's an excellent writer but I'm not in the group that considers him THE greatest writer in comics history. In fact, I find that sort of talk tiresome (brace yourself, karma rating). It's a perfectly fine opinion but it's just opinion, based on personal taste.

Personally, I think Aaron should have taken the high road. I understand his reaction but I believe that's a reaction best kept among friends. Writing a public "fuck you" to someone you don't know just seems childish to me. If he really felt compelled to reply to Moore's comments, I think he would have been better-served to reply to them in a much more reasoned manner, without the mud-slinging. He could have made a case for why Moore is wrong, using examples of contemporary work to make his case.

Jim

[aceguitarist3]

See, I somewhat agree that his silence would have made him the better man, but it isn't fair to let someone like Allan Moore just get away with whatever he wants to say just because he is Allan Moore and not even back himself up.

Sometimes it's best to keep quiet, but sometimes you gotta stand up for your own values too and not let people step on you and what you care about just because they think they can.

[turtleboy8]

So this has been bothering me, as Alan Moore is very intelligent, so why would he say that all creators are sucky? This seems kind of off.  Maybe (as is so often the case, especially on the internet) that people have misunderstood what he MEANT to say.  Reading it back it is possible for him to be meaning that all current creators are on the same level.  He says there are not top, middle, or even lower tiers of creators.  It seems more of a statement that all creators are made equal, and that you shouldn't really categorize them as tiers, because like all art it can't be judged by one person to be good or bad, it just is.  Maybe this is the case, maybe not, but just a discussion point.

[Scott C.]

See, I somewhat agree that his silence would have made him the better man, but it isn't fair to let someone like Allan Moore just get away with whatever he wants to say just because he is Allan Moore and not even back himself up.

Sometimes it's best to keep quiet, but sometimes you gotta stand up for your own values too and not let people step on you and what you care about just because they think they can.

But aren't there better ways of doing this?  Instead of just coming out and saying "fuck you, you hurt my feelings," wouldn't it have been a better argument to say just what Moore's missing?  What is being done that may be approaching Swamp Thing or Watchmen level?  For the fans that maybe agreed with Moore's initial assessment of the current talent, why are they wrong and what should they be reading?

Sure Aaron's feelings are valid in a touchy-feely kind of way but he just vented in an extremely public forum but he didn't even try to make an argument.  "Fuck you" isn't an argument.  So shut up and write something to counter Moore's interview.  That's what he's supposed to be isn't it?  A writer?

[Scott C.]

Also, haven't we learned enough by now to know that just because people may be idols and famous, they may still not be nice people.  With this, Aaron and Moore both go into the Sim category for me-- people who's work I can enjoy and appreciate but people I wouldn't want to spend any time with.

[Wood]

Also, haven't we learned enough by now to know that just because people may be idols and famous, they may still not be nice people.  With this, Aaron and Moore both go into the Sim category for me-- people who's work I can enjoy and appreciate but people I wouldn't want to spend any time with.

That's fair. Although I will say I've heard nothing but great things about Jason Aaron as a person from those who know him or have spent time with him.

[Steve-t]

"Fuck you" isn't an argument.  So shut up and write something to counter Moore's interview. 

I agree with this. "Fuck you" is what you say when you can't find a better way of getting your point across. Why did Aaron counter with as much bitterness and bad will as Moore seems to have done? That's doing nothing to remove the culture of bitter-men in comics.

[Scott C.]

That's fair. Although I will say I've heard nothing but great things about Jason Aaron as a person from those who know him or have spent time with him.

I'm sure he is but that's not what I got out of that column, admittedly one of the only things I've ever read by him.

[darrell]

I say F U to Alan Moore as well so I applaud Jason Aaron. I read Moore's work he is not a GOD he a a writer who wrote good stories.

[Julian Lytle]

Well, it is a pretty wide audience, because it's American and a good chunk of European readers.  But I think it sort of goes without saying that when he's called the greatest, it is in respect to western comics.

Still, if you're ever good enough to even be in the discussion of G.O.A.T. status, you're fine. There is never EVER going to be a consensus of who is the greatest of anything, with few exceptions, so debating who does and doesn't deserve the crown is a little fruitless (albeit fun).

Really how wide is it? Like what 300k in the states. That ain't a lot. And even western comics people are dissing the Strips, and the strips still reach more people than the average comic book. Moore is dope, but like rap there is a G.O.A.T. debate going probably every 20 minutes somewhere.



Also I think people forget that Moore was kinda pissed when he did that interview. To him DC basically used his friendship against him for their own goals. It's kinda like when 2pac dissed Jay-Z just for being Biggie's homie.

[TreverC]

To be fair, Aaron had time to review and edit what he wrote.
Moore was being recorded as he was speaking.

I believe Moores said stuff like this multiple times over the years.

[TreverC]

I've read some of Moore's stuff over the years and its good, not amazing.  Just good. 

He has from time to time bitched about creators today not creating new properties but to my knowledge everything he's written, with the exception of V for Vendetta (haven't read it so I don't know if it's based off of characters someone else created), uses either established characters, public domain or otherwise, or has characters based on established characters like the Watchmen.  If I'm wrong correct me but everything I've ever heard of that he's written wasn't based on characters that he created.

I think Aaron shouldn't have told Moore to fuck off but he isn't wrong in blasting him.  A lot of people hold Moore up as a writting god.  People go to him for his opinion, which has been for the most part negative, on anything that is riffing off of something he has written.  The combination of the two make it seem as though he feels that he is the beginning and end to comic book writting and that puts a lot of people off.  It may be an inaccurate perception or an accurate one but when anyone is in the public light however small or big he or she should be aware how they are perceived and how something may come off.