Eric Powell on Diversity in Comics

[steve bryant]

Why would you take it away?  They publish that stuff, don't they?  Would you divide up NBC in the same fashion?  They show what they show.  DC publishes what they publish.

I was confusing the discussions: Powell's discussion of creator-owned books and your discussion of the diversity of DC's overall output.

Regarding your point on the diversity of DC's publishing schedule, I was wrong. The Vertigo books represent a portion of DC's publication schedule, so we should leave them in.

Let's look at what DC is soliciting this month. I'll include trade paperback collections, since that's a big part of Vertigo's output and focusing solely on single issues would probably present an unfair picture of how Vertigo figures into the overall scheme. Leaving out variant covers and counting redundancies like hardcovers/softcovers as one release, here are some numbers. In the January Previews, DC is soliciting 20 Batman and Batman family titles. In the same month, there are 22 Vertigo titles. That's 20 titles featuring one specific superhero and his supporting cast compared to 22 books whose only real defining similarity is that they don't feature anyone wearing a mask and fighting crime.

Of those 22 Vertigo titles, 10 are fantasy, 2 are crime, 2 are dystopian science-fiction, 5 are horror, 1 features historical barbarians, 1 is a contemporary suspense thriller, and 1 is an anthology.

Looking at the big picture, the diversity of DC's January solicitations (including Vertigo) breaks down like this:
Shared-universe superhero books: 133
Non-shared-universe superhero books: 5*
Non-superhero books: 36  
Kids' comics: 6

In greater detail we get the genre breakdown like this:

Superheroes: 138
Fantasy:11
Horror: 8
Pulp: 3
Western: 2
Espionage: 2
Anthology: 2
Crime: 2
Distopian Science fiction: 2
Humor:1
War:1
Historical barbarians: 1
Suspense thriller: 1
Kids' comics: 6 (3 supers, 2 adventure, 1 humor)

Even including Vertigo titles, I don't think anyone can mistake DC's output as being diverse.

*includes resolicitations of 3 Promethia volumes and 2 "super"-based videogame tie-ins

[steve bryant]

To add a coda to my previous post, I'm not saying superhero books are bad. As I've posted throughout this thread, superheroes represent a huge portion of the best of American comics. And I agree with Mr. Powell that the Marvel and DC editorial staffs truly and genuinely love comics as an artform and as an entertainment medium. And I understand that, to a large extent, sales drive production of upcoming titles.

With all of that in mind, I was responding to the statement that DC's slate of titles represents diversity.

[Jay Tomio]

This has never been about a lack of diversity, for me.  It's about a lack of diversity among the highest selling product.  There are lots of comics covering a myriad of genres.  Very few people buy them.  There are lots of movies and television shows that aren't about cops or hospitals, but very rarely are they at the top of the ratings either.  The top 20 shows are dominated, and have been for years, by variations on a handful of tried and true formulas.  Just like comic books.  Television might be a little bit better than comics, when a hit like Lost comes along, but not so much that I agree with holding it up as a beacon of diversity.  I think comics should aspire to be MORE diverse than (network) television.

This is a good though, perhaps unrelated I think the downfall of the upper echelon of comic sales is that too many of them have obvious influences in tv that they try to reenact in comics, and while they may pace their own industry, it fails to actually be better than just watching damn television

Regarding the video, I thought it was amusing but didn't think much beyond that. Look, you have to have a product that people GIVE A SHIT ABOUT, before these conversations can be had and oddly, you have to take the indie approach when considering this. You can't be obsessed with the success of 'indie comics" as a market, you have to treat, plan, and evaluate on an individual basis. Forget what other books are doing, do what you can for YOUR books. Quit being a rally point for straw soldiers and GET NICE with you're own shit. You know who is indie? Todd McFarlane, Jeff Smith, Mike Mignola, Eastman and Laird - they didn't talk about it, they did it and I bet couldn't give the least about these topics that a small niche think is important.

Show me how nice you are, don't tell me I or anyone else is holding your awesome back. We live in a world now where we have known and existing talent asking 65k from fans just so to do indie work - I'm supposed to respect that. Put a fucking suit on, make some damn meetings and go SELL your product and get me EXCITED.

For the record, I love Eric Powell, I think he's awesome but he kind of does fall into that growing category of awesome talent that doesn't work on books that thrill me. I like Goon for sure...but do I need to read 25 more issues of him? Not so much. I'm not going to buy a book because I like somebody or how they write or draw - I have to love your book/story.

I once opened a Batman book and was introduced to this character that sold me. No excuses, no whining, no illogical business plans, no handouts asked for, Grendel was just AWESOME next to the god damn Batman himself. What did I do? I went to buy Warchild. Next? I got a half of a longbox full of minty Comico Primer#2's.

When I was a kid the prevailing slogan was "Don't talk about it, be about it". Too many people talking and need to go into the lab.

[JimN]

Regarding the video, I thought it was amusing but didn't think much beyond that. Look, you have to have a product that people GIVE A SHIT ABOUT, before these conversations can be had and oddly, you have to take the indie approach when considering this. You can't be obsessed with the success of 'indie comics" as a market, you have to treat, plan, and evaluate on an individual basis. Forget what other books are doing, do what you can for YOUR books. Quit being a rally point for straw soldiers and GET NICE with you're own shit. You know who is indie? Todd McFarlane, Jeff Smith, Mike Mignola, Eastman and Laird - they didn't talk about it, they did it and I bet couldn't give the least about these topics that a small niche think is important.

I think you're dead wrong about that. I suspect they care quite a bit and there ARE people who "give a shit" about a substantial number of creator-owned comics so there's absolutely no reason this conversation can't occur now. An awful lot of the people producing creator-owned comics have already taken the step you're talking about and attempted to do what they can for their own books by making them, getting them published and doing what their best to promote them.

Show me how nice you are, don't tell me I or anyone else is holding your awesome back. We live in a world now where we have known and existing talent asking 65k from fans just so to do indie work - I'm supposed to respect that. Put a fucking suit on, make some damn meetings and go SELL your product and get me EXCITED.

For the record, I love Eric Powell, I think he's awesome but he kind of does fall into that growing category of awesome talent that doesn't work on books that thrill me. I like Goon for sure...but do I need to read 25 more issues of him? Not so much. I'm not going to buy a book because I like somebody or how they write or draw - I have to love your book/story.

I once opened a Batman book and was introduced to this character that sold me. No excuses, no whining, no illogical business plans, no handouts asked for, Grendel was just AWESOME next to the god damn Batman himself. What did I do? I went to buy Warchild. Next? I got a half of a longbox full of minty Comico Primer#2's.

When I was a kid the prevailing slogan was "Don't talk about it, be about it". Too many people talking and need to go into the lab.

The world doesn't revolve around your tastes, Jay. I can absolutely understand what you're saying about awesome talent working on books that just aren't for you but many, many indie creators are already trying to sell their products and get people excited in the same way Grendel apparently excited you. If what they're doing doesn't excite you that's understandable but that doesn't mean they're doing something wrong, making excuses, asking for handouts, utilizing an illogical business plan, etc. They're trying to get their work noticed and putting on a "fucking suit" to "make some damn meetings" isn't likely to help them unless they're wearing that suit to the office of a wealthy, generous investor or a publisher eager to make a big investment in the work. How many such opportunities do you think are actually out there? How many investors are eager to reach into their pockets to finance an indie comic and the marketing campaign necessary to make it a big success? How many publishers are willing and able to do that?

The video wasn't about whining, excuses or illogical business plans. Despite some of it's clumsy attempts at humor, it's message is summed up very succinctly near the end:

"We have to start making original, creator-owned content just as vital to sustaining this industry as the Marvel and DC superhero books."

It's clear that the "we" Powell is referring to is everyone from creators and readers to retailers. There's creator-owned content out there as good as or better than anything being published by Marvel and DC and none of it is selling at anywhere near the level of the top-selling Marvel and DC books. The comics industry isn't in a healthy place right now so far from being a whine, an excuse or a request for a handout, what Powell and the Creators Front for Diversity in Comics are saying is that a sea change in comics, away from the dominance of two publishers owned by megacorporations that are primarily interested in the money they can make off superhero brands established decades ago, to a much more diverse industry, where a variety of creator-owned comics with a different agenda can thrive, will be good for the medium. It won't just be good for indie creators X, Y and Z. It will be good for comics.

Jim

[deadcowaroma]

What Jim said. 

[Farrell]

To add a coda to my previous post, I'm not saying superhero books are bad. As I've posted throughout this thread, superheroes represent a huge portion of the best of American comics. And I agree with Mr. Powell that the Marvel and DC editorial staffs truly and genuinely love comics as an artform and as an entertainment medium. And I understand that, to a large extent, sales drive production of upcoming titles.

With all of that in mind, I was responding to the statement that DC's slate of titles represents as much diversity as network television does.

This is what I am saying, and have been saying, throughout the whole thread since his music analogy was brought up (and extended to television).  You may not agree with that either but I wish you'd stop saying that I'm arguing that DC's lineup is diverse full stop.  A pertinent self-quote: " DC has a pretty diverse lineup, overall, as diverse as the offerings of any broadcast network."

[Farrell]

The comics industry isn't in a healthy place right now so far from being a whine, an excuse or a request for a handout, what Powell and the Creators Front for Diversity in Comics are saying is that a sea change in comics, away from the dominance of two publishers owned by megacorporations that are primarily interested in the money they can make off superhero brands established decades ago, to a much more diverse industry, where a variety of creator-owned comics with a different agenda can thrive, will be good for the medium. It won't just be good for indie creators X, Y and Z. It will be good for comics.

Jim

I think all that Jay is trying to say is that such a sea change won't and can't happen because some impassioned proponents, a group among which I count a number of us here, just ask for it.  People won't change what they buy for altruistic reasons, or out of guilt, or out of a sense that it's the "right" thing to do.  Creators have to create something that pulls the masses away from following the twin monoliths of Marvel and DC.  That's the only way.

How do they do that?  Damned if I know.  I think, and I've written this many times, that it starts with broadening the pool of consumers.  Superheroes might continue to be at the top of sales charts for a long time to come, but the main problem as I see it is that after superheroes, only scraps remain.   Again, in television, people watch American Idol and CSI in droves but the people who eschew those shows in favor of weightier or more challenging fare are still in the tens and hundreds of thousands.  In comics, those types of titles are lucky to read 10,000.  To put it another way, The Goon is never going to be a top selling book but I could envision it being a very GOOD selling book, if 1/10th its potential audience actually knew it existed.

I'm surprised that no one like Chris has come into this thread yet and reminded us that "it's not our jobs to sell comics."  Such a person wouldn't be wrong.  It's not our jobs.  But it remains the single best way available to us to grow the audience and allow a creator like Powell to do what he does and put food on the table.  Begging those who mostly love superhero comics to change their buying habits is largely futile (allowing for ex- Marvel zombies like our boy, Wood).  When creators hit the convention circuit and talk about their books, again, they're mostly talking to the people already buying comics.  Whether it's publishers, creators, consumers, or more likely a combination of all three and more, as an industry comics has got to reach out to larger audiences.  The top heavy sales of superheroes wouldn't sting quite so much if sales were five times what they are now all down the list.  And who knows?  Attract enough of a new audience and Criminal might be the top selling book.  People like crime shows, after all.  

[JimN]

I think all that Jay is trying to say is that such a sea change won't and can't happen because some impassioned proponents, a group among which I count a number of us here, just ask for it.  People won't change what they buy for altruistic reasons, or out of guilt, or out of a sense that it's the "right" thing to do.  Creators have to create something that pulls the masses away from following the twin monoliths of Marvel and DC.  That's the only way.

I agree but that's not likely to happen without increased awareness and alternative choices on the shelves. Comics creators can make a great product and promote the hell out of it but if it isn't stocked, if it gets pushed off the shelves and to the back of the catalog by Marvel and DC product, it still can't compete. That's why this "call to arms" isn't just directed at readers.

How do they do that?  Damned if I know.  I think, and I've written this many times, that it starts with broadening the pool of consumers.  Superheroes might continue to be at the top of sales charts for a long time to come, but the main problem as I see it is that after superheroes, only scraps remain.   Again, in television, people watch American Idol and CSI in droves but the people who eschew those shows in favor of weightier or more challenging fare are still in the tens and hundreds of thousands.  In comics, those types of titles are lucky to read 10,000.  To put it another way, The Goon is never going to be a top selling book but I could envision it being a very GOOD selling book, if 1/10th its potential audience actually knew it existed.

Well said and I wholeheartedly agree that expanding comics readership is the key to a healthier industry (and I think diversity of subject matter is a key to that).

I'm surprised that no one like Chris has come into this thread yet and reminded us that "it's not our jobs to sell comics."  Such a person wouldn't be wrong.  It's not our jobs.  But it remains the single best way available to us to grow the audience and allow a creator like Powell to do what he does and put food on the table.  Begging those who mostly love superhero comics to change their buying habits is largely futile (allowing for ex- Marvel zombies like our boy, Wood).  When creators hit the convention circuit and talk about their books, again, they're mostly talking to the people already buying comics.  Whether it's publishers, creators, consumers, or more likely a combination of all three and more, as an industry comics has got to reach out to larger audiences.  The top heavy sales of superheroes wouldn't sting quite so much if sales were five times what they are now all down the list.  And who knows?  Attract enough of a new audience and Criminal might be the top selling book.  People like crime shows, after all.  

It sounds like you and I are on the same page. I'd type more but I'm heading out to see a movie so I'll have to add to this later!

Jim

[Farrell]

I agree but that's not likely to happen without increased awareness and alternative choices on the shelves. Comics creators can make a great product and promote the hell out of it but if it isn't stocked, if it gets pushed off the shelves and to the back of the catalog by Marvel and DC product, it still can't compete. That's why this "call to arms" isn't just directed at readers.

Excellent point.  It's also going to take the retailers and the distributors to make it happen.

Well said and I wholeheartedly agree that expanding comics readership is the key to a healthier industry (and I think diversity of subject matter is a key to that).

Absolutely.  I don't think superhero sales are maxed out, but I agree that most of the growth would be in other areas.

It sounds like you and I are on the same page. I'd type more but I'm heading out to see a movie so I'll have to add to this later!

I hope it's a good one!

[Wood]

Regarding the video, I thought it was amusing but didn't think much beyond that.

Same here.

Look, you have to have a product that people GIVE A SHIT ABOUT, before these conversations can be had and oddly, you have to take the indie approach when considering this. You can't be obsessed with the success of 'indie comics" as a market, you have to treat, plan, and evaluate on an individual basis. Forget what other books are doing, do what you can for YOUR books. Quit being a rally point for straw soldiers and GET NICE with you're own shit. You know who is indie? Todd McFarlane, Jeff Smith, Mike Mignola, Eastman and Laird - they didn't talk about it, they did it and I bet couldn't give the least about these topics that a small niche think is important.

Not sure what Eric is saying goes against what you're saying, Jay. I agree that as a creator you have to DO IT, but empirically as a fan I can say without hesitation that lots of indie works ARE great and COULD find huge audiences, but don't. Now if it were as easy as telling those guys to hustle more, I would be giving you cyber-dap, but that's not the situation we find ourselves in.

Now as to your point about it being a strawman argument. THAT, I unfortunately agree with. Ultimately no one is going to save an industry, unless it's in their best interest to save. And dollars make the world go 'round. I know you're very plugged into the book publishing world too, and while that industry is by its nature much larger than comics, I don't think I'm wrong in saying it suffers from many of the same plights. For every Harry Potter or Twilight or Da Vinci Code or Hunger Games, there are literally THOUSANDS of PUBLISHED works that sell for shit and literally don't allow the authors to pay their bills. And those are the PUBLISHED works, not to think of the tens of thousands of aspiring writers that send out their books and get negged.

To that extent, it gets back to what Chris is always saying, "it's not our job to save comics." I love the industry, and many of the people in it, so I WANT to see it succeed. But I also don't think it's my job to come up with the magic key that unlocks this big conundrum. Now, if someone comes up with something, I will back it 110%. That's why I'm all for things like Kickstarter and DCBS and buying original art and spending $$ directly with creators at cons, etc...it all helps. But none of it is a cure.

Show me how nice you are, don't tell me I or anyone else is holding your awesome back. We live in a world now where we have known and existing talent asking 65k from fans just so to do indie work - I'm supposed to respect that. Put a fucking suit on, make some damn meetings and go SELL your product and get me EXCITED.

  I think lots of people are doing that. It's just that right now their outlets aren't boardrooms that can get them access to millions of consumers, they're small business owners that can maybe get them in a few thousand outlets with hopes of selling IN THEIR BEST CASE SCENARIO 20- to 30,000 units. I think it's fair to say that most indie comic creators don't make comics with any preconception they'll be wealthy. Even Jeff Smith and Terry Moore and Bryan Lee O'Malley were just guys with stories to tell when they first got rolling. But not expecting to be rich is a different beast than not expecting to be able to buy your family groceries. Right now I honestly think it's next to impossible to make a living doing creator owned books, and that means that many rational people, with great stories to tell, are instead opting to go do something else with their time.

As a fan and comics nut, I would love for the industry to be healthier, but not just for societal reasons, but for selfish ones. I want there to be more awesome works out there for me to consume. And that won't happen as things currently stand.

For the record, I love Eric Powell, I think he's awesome but he kind of does fall into that growing category of awesome talent that doesn't work on books that thrill me. I like Goon for sure...but do I need to read 25 more issues of him? Not so much. I'm not going to buy a book because I like somebody or how they write or draw - I have to love your book/story.

I think there's validity in this stance, and this is probably where you and I agree the most AND will probably be met with the most vitriol among our forum peers. Here's the thing...I DO think creators have a tendency to vastly overrate their own output and ideas AND fans of their stuff do as well. I love what I love and think it's the best stuff on the shelves, but doesn't make it so for anyone other than me, right? Same with creators.

So while I think the industry makes it tough for creator-owned works to succeed, I ALSO think there's a defeatist attitude that besets a lot of people that ultimately does no good. How many times have I spoken to a creator who took the stance, "my book sold for shit, because the industry can't support me." Well, even if that's true, I believe that conditioning yourself to think that you have no chance to succeed is a guarantee that you won't succeed. You HAVE to "LIVE, AS IF."

I once opened a Batman book and was introduced to this character that sold me. No excuses, no whining, no illogical business plans, no handouts asked for, Grendel was just AWESOME next to the god damn Batman himself. What did I do? I went to buy Warchild. Next? I got a half of a longbox full of minty Comico Primer#2's.

When I was a kid the prevailing slogan was "Don't talk about it, be about it". Too many people talking and need to go into the lab.

I think the problem a lot of people have is that we don't know where the lab is, or how to procure a map to it, much less have the chemistry degrees to work scientist wonders once we're there.

[Tempo House]

I feel like there are a few issues being conflated here:

1. The DC/Marvel hegemony and everything that goes with it:
    a. The fact that both companies are owned by megacorporations and are more into the business of licensing properties.
    b. The fact that neither company has been eager to create new characters or introduce any radical realignment of their "universes".
    c. The fact that working with either company means working within their respective universes, which means there are strick guidelines and parameters they need to be working with.
2. The popularity of the super hero genre (which as was pointed out in this thread, is not anything unique to DC/Marvel), which may be argued to be stifling other genres.
3. The difficulty for creators to maintain a comfortable living working off of their creator-owned comics.

As a long time linux-user and an even longer-time fan of the kind of music that is way too weird and dissonant to have any realistic shot at radio time (If White Stripes is your thing, you're actually lucky), I completely understand Powell's frustration: There is awesomely good shit that is out there and people are just not taking it ... instead they go back to using Windows or Mac (modified linux, actually) because that is what is readily available.

There are some things to this dynamic that will cut across segments of the market: companies with big muscles will always dominate the marketplace, and they will always dictate the public's perception of what a legitimate product of X (comics, music, OS) there is out there. This is 100% unavoidable.  The corporations who control the marketplace will not innovate or will not produce things that challenge the user: their predictability is their bread and butter, and they are not giving that up anytime soon.

It is also unavoidable that there will niche users who will be more discerning and gravitate towards the objects in the periphery of the market and begin to consume those things, a bunch of which will be just plain crap, but those are the people with the soul of gold miners: they will go through piles of worthless crap just to find the most awesome nugget and completely claim it as their own. There is, in fact, beauty in that. It is a lifestyle that promotes a sense of belonging (and when that nugget is reclaimed by megacorporations, like Nirvana going to Geffen, they will feel betrayed).

That said, there aren't too many options on the table for indie comics producers in the current configuration of the distribution channels.  If Diamond is the one who's going to distribute the comics, your comic choices in your LCS will eventually look like the music choices on your local FM dial (which is getting more and more homogenized as the decades pass). You can't break the monopoly of the content when there is a monopoly in the distribution. Quite simply: there needs to be an alternative distributor who will be pushing its weight around to push for the titles being ignored by Diamond.  The trouble is, sometimes monopolies have enough critical mass that you can't really break into that market at all.

So ... it seems to me the solution will be to invent a whole new distribution channel, the same way music did: with myspace, youtube, itunes and all those other media that for us, the old farts who are still used to receiving our music from the radio having a hard time to adapt to. Same idea with comics: digital comics has the best shot to break the Diamond monopoly, and therefore introduce a crack in the DC/Marvel duopoly on the market ... but ... in order for that to happen, digital comics need to establish itself as a commercially viable entity, and that's where the real struggle is going to be.

I appreciate Powell's point of view on this, and his passion, but the forces at work here are much larger than what individuals who make purchasing decisions on a Wednesday to Wednesday basis can really tackle. Until then Powell has one of two options, as far as I can see: continue to do what he does and find other ways to supplement his income, or fold.

[soapbox off]

[deadcowaroma]

I appreciate Powell's point of view on this, and his passion, but the forces at work here are much larger than what individuals who make purchasing decisions on a Wednesday to Wednesday basis can really tackle. Until then Powell has one of two options, as far as I can see: continue to do what he does and find other ways to supplement his income, or fold.

I think Powell's doing the right thing: Option #3 - Continue to do what he does AND mock the mainstream mentality. Yea, it's not nice, but I think people are discounting the power of peer pressure. His comments (and some others before him) are shaping what is basically Cool People's Comics. "Have fun with your Batman and Spider-man, but if you want to be a trend setter, pick up The Goon, The Walking Dead, etc." I think people would be surprised by how many converts this message will get.

[Tempo House]

I think Powell's doing the right thing: Option #3 - Continue to do what he does AND mock the mainstream mentality.

That's the option taken by my favorite band of all time: the Fall. They have been doing the right kind of music for decades now, and taking shots and offending mainstream bands right and left, while having to change record labels and massive personnel purges every few years. The result is music with great integrity and great rewards, but the downside is, they will always and forever remain a niche band, and proudly so.

That choice has not been very contagious though.  It is a losing battle in the overall scheme of things. But at least you go down with your dignity intact, so to speak.

[Kenney]

I think Powell's doing the right thing: Option #3 - Continue to do what he does AND mock the mainstream mentality. Yea, it's not nice, but I think people are discounting the power of peer pressure. His comments (and some others before him) are shaping what is basically Cool People's Comics. "Have fun with your Batman and Spider-man, but if you want to be a trend setter, pick up The Goon, The Walking Dead, etc." I think people would be surprised by how many converts this message will get.

I'm sure this may work on some people, but I cannot stand it. I've noticed that sentiment myself, and it almost always turns me off. Maybe I'm crazy, but the best way to draw me to a work, is to sell me on it's merits. When your argument is, "Read my book, because it's better than Batman!", you gets no love from me. Now, to be clear, I don't think that's what Powell is doing exactly, but I have felt like some creators in the past have come off like that.

That said, all the cool kids read Locke and Key, so if you want to sit at the best lunch table, you better get on that shit!

[KW!!]

Well it's clear that this video accomplished what it set out to do: Get people talking about the diversity of the Big 2 and how it compares with television and radio!

[steve bryant]

This is what I am saying, and have been saying, throughout the whole thread since his music analogy was brought up (and extended to television).  You may not agree with that either but I wish you'd stop saying that I'm arguing that DC's lineup is diverse full stop.  A pertinent self-quote: " DC has a pretty diverse lineup, overall, as diverse as the offerings of any broadcast network."

I'm sorry to put words in your mouth. And we'll agree to disagree about the broadcast television lineups (where I don't see as dominant a genre as in comics).

Karma.

[Farrell]

I'm sorry to put words in your mouth. And we'll agree to disagree about the broadcast television lineups (where I don't see as dominant a genre as in comics).

Karma.

Karma to you, Steve.

[Julian Lytle]

it's was an ok video. I'm not going to lie the first time I saw the thread I thought "diversity" was about having more people of color and women in the industry.

kanyeshrug

I don't get why people continue to bring up that DC publishes a lot of Batman. Batman sells. Let's get over it. He sells everywhere.

Batman has been in a Warners Animation cartoon since B:TAS came out, no breaks. Batman has replaced Bugs Bunny as the front character on the Warners Animation building. The Dark Knight is like the 3 highest selling Domestic film ever. Batman has one of the best critically reviewed games of this game generation, and a highly anticipated sequel.

You know how many cokes is on the shelf? Batman is coke.


I do think there needs to be new ish on the stands, but I do think the creators can't just worry about the LCS and the readers who just read superhero books. Maybe Batman is a person's thing. I only buy 1 Batman comic for the most part. That's it.

I do also think that comics will be alright, there are other types of comics that people read, from webcomics to newspaper strips (which is shrinking) to manga to Archie. And the one thing that all those other types of comics share is that you don't have to enter a LCS to get it.

[Julian Lytle]

I'm sorry to put words in your mouth. And we'll agree to disagree about the broadcast television lineups (where I don't see as dominant a genre as in comics).

Karma.

it's was an ok video. I'm not going to lie the first time I saw the thread I thought "diversity" was about having more people of color and women in the industry.

kanyeshrug

I don't get why people continue to bring up that DC publishes a lot of Batman. Batman sells. Let's get over it. He sells everywhere.

Batman has been in a Warners Animation cartoon since B:TAS came out, no breaks. Batman has replaced Bugs Bunny as the front character on the Warners Animation building. The Dark Knight is like the 3 highest selling Domestic film ever. Batman has one of the best critically reviewed games of this game generation, and a highly anticipated sequel.

You know how many cokes is on the shelf? Batman is coke.


I do think there needs to be new ish on the stands, but I do think the creators can't just worry about the LCS and the readers who just read superhero books. Maybe Batman is a person's thing. I only buy 1 Batman comic for the most part. That's it.

I do also think that comics will be alright, there are other types of comics that people read, from webcomics to newspaper strips (which is shrinking) to manga to Archie. And the one thing that all those other types of comics share is that you don't have to enter a LCS to get it.

Just to make a point,
CBS is the top dog in TV right now

2 Criminal Minds, 3 CSIs, Blue Bloods, Hawaii 5-0,2 NCISs, The Mentalist, Flashpoint and Medium

That's 12 shows dealing with Law Enforcement in some way.

2 shows about law, The Defenders and The Good Wife

8 sitcoms, 2 dealing with young professional people in New York city and realtionships

5 reality shows and 2 are basically Road Rules ripoffs and one is an AI ripsoff and another is a real world ripoff.

I don't know it's about the same a DC comics.

[Greg Leclair (greg1ca)]

Just to make a point,
CBS is the top dog in TV right now

2 Criminal Minds, 3 CSIs, Blue Bloods, Hawaii 5-0,2 NCISs, The Mentalist, Flashpoint and Medium

That's 12 shows dealing with Law Enforcement in some way.

2 shows about law, The Defenders and The Good Wife

8 sitcoms, 2 dealing with young professional people in New York city and realtionships

5 reality shows and 2 are basically Road Rules ripoffs and one is an AI ripsoff and another is a real world ripoff.

I don't know it's about the same a DC comics.

I am not sure I understand the point you are making with these examples. CBS is on top with a group of tired formula highly derivative shows....and that's a good thing?  Apart from the Good Wife and NPH on HIMYM, I don't recall seeing CBS being criticically received in the form of reviews or televison award nominations.

But do you know what is? Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, The Walking Dead, The Wire, The Sopranos, Nurse Jackie, etc.

Does Jersey Shore have higher ratings than Mad Men? Yes. Is that something the televission industry should aspire to? I think we can all agree that the answer is no.

I think the comparison to comics is fair.