The Kiss Me or Kick Me thread

[legion of daves]

i think it's incredibly racist to assume the one large black SHIELD agent in the thor movie is luke cage.

[David]

I don't know if it's racist.  Ignorant, maybe.  But racist?  That seems like a leap.

[thefreakytiki]

i think it's incredibly racist to assume the one large black SHIELD agent in the thor movie is luke cage.

Not at all.  When you have one known Avenger already in the scene (Hawkeye) it is a normal assumption that there may be more.  I personally viewed it as hopeful.


The Tiki

[legion of daves]

i get how it's easy to get swept up in it, one guy says "hey, luke cage is a huge black guy, maybe that huge black guy is luke cage!" even though if it was they would've mentioned him by name at least once, considering how they treated barton.  i saw it as basically saying "there's a large black man in a marvel movie, it's not war machine, it must be luke cage.  there'd be no other reason why he'd be there."  it's all about interpretation i guess.

[Brian G]

-I hate elitism in comics. I hate how people assume popularity=bad. This is something I catch myself doing all the time. I hate that I do it. Deadpool books can be the same level of quality as the latest Indy darling.

-I also dislike when comics don't even try to use the medium to their advantage. Don't just tell a story. Create a comic book. Do something that can't be done in other medium.

-On the same topic I hate when comics are judged by their stories or art, instead of the blending of the two. Alan Moore isn't a great comic writer because he tells great stories. He's a great comic book writer because he uses the medium.

-I love people getting excited about their books. I love when people are convincing me to pick something up. I love this forum. I love this podcast. Stay golden, Ponyboy.

[Jay Tomio]

I hate elitism in comics. I hate how people assume popularity=bad. This is something I catch myself doing all the time. I hate that I do it. Deadpool books can be the same level of quality as the latest Indy darling.

Only if Daniel Way is having an off day.

[steve bryant]

-I hate elitism in comics. I hate how people assume popularity=bad. This is something I catch myself doing all the time. I hate that I do it. Deadpool books can be the same level of quality as the latest Indy darling.

Good point. The other side of the coin is equally frustrating. I hate when people assume high sales=good. There's plenty of shit that sells comparatively high numbers because some obsessive, indiscriminate completist doesn't want to break up his run.

[Brian G]

Good point. The other side of the coin is equally frustrating. I hate when people assume high sales=good. There's plenty of shit that sells comparatively high numbers because some obsessive, indiscriminate completist doesn't want to break up his run.

This is probably the case more often than not. I only mentioned the other side because it's something I personally do far too much. I have a bad habit of not considering the mainstream stuff.

Only if Daniel Way is having an off day.

Hah. I don't read Deadpool, but I figured the example would get the point across.

[Jeppe]

I don't think it's a question of having the stones to say who the best writer in comics is if it isn't Moore. I just don't believe there is one, single best writer in comics. As far as I'm concerned, there are quite a few people who have written comics as good as or better than Moore's work. They all have their strengths and weaknesses and everybody has their own subjective criteria for determining who's better but I sure don't think Moore is unequivocally the best writer in comics. He's among the most ambitious and sophisticated but at times I think he can also be among the most pretentious and contrived.

This is obviously true, and I should probably qualify my Gaiman comment, which was in all honestly mostly meant as a snarky retort to Dave, and a bait for kicks. Sadly it seems all I got was a slightly condescending comment from old-man Farrell, with no karma kicks to back it up  

I don't think that Neil Gaiman is a better comics writer than Alan Moore per se, but I do think that his record has been more flawless for me than Moore's has. While Moore has produced a ton of great, great comic books, he has had such a large output over the years that there are inevitably things in there that I don't really care for at all. The same is true for writers like Grant Morrison. Gaiman, on the other hand, has written fewer titles, and I have yet to read one of his comics that I actively disliked (and yes, that includes The Wake). All that said, Gaiman isn't my all-time favorite comics writer, and I certainly don't think that he's the best at writing, say, Superhero stories or crime and espionage stuff. When it comes down to it, there are a number of truly awesome writers, and they all have their strengths and (at least most of them) weaknesses. In order to really counter the "Alan Moore is the best comics writer ever" deification claim, I would have to offer up a personal pantheon of authors. I guess I'm just more of a polytheist than a monotheist 

[Farrell]

This is obviously true, and I should probably qualify my Gaiman comment, which was in all honestly mostly meant as a snarky retort to Dave, and a bait for kicks. Sadly it seems all I got was a slightly condescending comment from old-man Farrell, with no karma kicks to back it up  

Old man?  I should kick you for that!  

I am kinda old, though... so never mind.  I didn't mean it condescendingly.  I'll expound: when I got back into comics in the '90s, I did so mostly because of Neil Gaiman.  He was far and away my favorite comic book writer then.  Sandman was the biggest reason why, but I also read everything else he did: Books of Magic, Violent Cases, Signal to Noise, Miracleman, "Hold Me" in Hellblazer, etc.

Around 1994/95, his work, IMO, started to get overly precious and, um, whatever the opposite of lean would be.  He never used ten words when he could use fifteen and say the same thing.  Like so:  "The boy, still quite young, was really very unused to being quite so very alone."  That's not a quote, but that's what it read like to me.

I still read that stuff on the strength of what came before: Stardust, the second Death miniseries, the last year or so of Sandman, Mr. Punch, even Angela.  But he never recaptured the magic of his earlier work, except in fits and starts.

So, yeah, in 1995 he was the best writer in comics.  On the entire body of his work through 2011, not so much.  For me.

I did like Coraline and Anansi Boys, I should mention.  Prose might be a better fit for him now.  I will eventually read American Gods, and although I'm procrastinating, I'm looking forward to that.

[Jeppe]

So, yeah, in 1995 he was the best writer in comics.  On the entire body of his work through 2011, not so much.  For me.

That's certainly fair enough, and thanks for the clarification! 

[Robert]

I guess I'm just more of a polytheist than a monotheist 

Same here.   Karma.

[Tempo House]

are inevitably things in there that I don't really care for at all. The same is true for writers like Grant Morrison. Gaiman, on the other hand, has written fewer titles, and I have yet to read one of his comics that I actively disliked (and yes, that includes The Wake). All that said,

I think The Wake was great. It was a very good and satisfying closure to the series as far as I am concerned.

[Tempo House]

I did like Coraline and Anansi Boys, I should mention.  Prose might be a better fit for him now.  I will eventually read American Gods, and although I'm procrastinating, I'm looking forward to that.

Funny, I find his prose work kinda boring. I thought Neverwhere was a predictable "down the rabbit hole" book. And I was not able to finish American Gods. I think he is better suited as a writer in a visual medium.

Just my opinion.

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

And I was not able to finish American Gods.

I only did because it was an audiobook and I was commuting, but I didn't really enjoy it all that much. I loved Coraline, but his adult prose doesn't really light my fire.

[Lukeh]

Man I was hoping for some really bad taste for kicks comments in here. Disappointed.

[Farrell]

Funny, I find his prose work kinda boring. I thought Neverwhere was a predictable "down the rabbit hole" book. And I was not able to finish American Gods. I think he is better suited as a writer in a visual medium.

Just my opinion.

Well, Anansi Boys is the only prose book by Gaiman that I've read, and I did like it.  Coraline, I actually read in the graphic novel format by P. Craig Russell (and saw the movie).  My girlfriend has read and loved The Graveyard Book.  We'll see what happens when I finally get around to American Gods.   Oh, and I've read Good Omens, but that doesn't count.  Terry Prachett's fingerprints are all over that one.

[legion of daves]

i enjoyed neverwhere but could never finish american gods either.

[Brian G]

i enjoyed neverwhere but could never finish american gods either.

I liked Anasia Boys, but I enjoyed American Gods more. I thought Good Omens was better than both of them, but that's not strictly Gaiman.

[Greg Leclair (greg1ca)]

Oh, and I've read Good Omens, but that doesn't count.  Terry Prachett's fingerprints are all over that one.

I read Good Omens because of Gaiman's name on the cover. Regardless of how much of the writing was Neil vs Mr Pratchett, my heavens that was a fun book!!! I have read it a half dozen times and it cracks me up each time. I have bought it as gift for others a few times as well. So good.

I won't oversell American Gods, but I did enjoy it. I have yet to read Anasi's Boys (laziness son my part)