The New DC Launch Thread [News, Titles, etc.]

[Kamakazi010654]

I think most of the members on this forum get WAY to wrapped up in creators. My guess (yes a guess) is that far fewer comic readers really care about the book creator outside of the big guns (Johns, Bendis, Morrison, etc.) than most people want to think.

I consider myself a comic book fan and I will say I am far more swayed by the single paragraph of solicit text than I am by any creator.

[deadcowaroma]

I think most of the members on this forum get WAY to wrapped up in creators. My guess (yes a guess) is that far fewer comic readers really care about the book creator outside of the big guns (Johns, Bendis, Morrison, etc.) than most people want to think.

I consider myself a comic book fan and I will say I am far more swayed by the single paragraph of solicit text than I am by any creator.

My opinion, but I think creative team is really the only way you can judge whether a book will be good or not. Character doesn't matter. Plot summary might make you interested, but it doesn't help you judge quality. Creative team is all there is.

[jack239]

My opinion, but I think creative team is really the only way you can judge whether a book will be good or not. Character doesn't matter. Plot summary might make you interested, but it doesn't help you judge quality. Creative team is all there is.

i would agree for the most part, it's a better indicator of quality then one paragraph or the character

[mr-frosty]

I listened to the 3 Chicks podcast on the reboot after yours, and I must say, your optimism was incredible compared to their incredibly negative and issue-driven take. Thanks again.

[Kamakazi010654]

My opinion, but I think creative team is really the only way you can judge whether a book will be good or not. Character doesn't matter. Plot summary might make you interested, but it doesn't help you judge quality. Creative team is all there is.

That is true, but MOST comic readers probably can't judge books based on creator. I know for me, a reasonably new comic fan of about 3 years, had to go look up what the guy Vince was talking about was so amazing for. It isn't like I am going to go do that for every book. Sure I have a few people I know I consistently like (DnA, Bru, Hickman) but that is pretty much it.

[aSh]

Here is the thing about number ones. When a new number one comes out it is against a rack of comics that are full of drop off points and many forgetable issues. A book like I,Vampire is going to go against a rack of other number ones who have some brand recognition.  It's gonna be tough for that book in any market without it's own buzz.

[JMann]

Hmmm..
No Justice Society, no New Gods.

Ive always loved the concepts, the history and the costumes. A lot of great toys seem to have been pushed aside in this reimagining.

[BlackDynamite]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32809

Are people really that scared of change?

I do realize this poll isn't representational of all fans, but it certainty is representational of the core fans that are already reading DC books.

 I disagree with your assertion that the poll represents core DC fans - the only way that could be verified is if being an existing DC reader was a prerequisite to take the survey. Over 10,000 responses seems like a pretty good sample of the potential audience.
As one of those who participated in the poll (yes, blame me) I'm surprised at how many titles ended up with a majority in the "definitely not" column. What is less surprising, but no less disappointing, is how many of those are titles featuring obscure characters and/or creators. Maybe DC would have been wiser to go with fewer titles, thereby focusing their big name talent? The proof will be in the sales figures, I guess...

(By the way, if you were wondering, I currently am only reading one DC title, Flashpoint, so wouldn't consider myself a "core DC fan". I answered "Definitely will Buy" to about 13 of the relaunch titles, which I'll buy in print. About 11-12 more I'll be trying digitally, and I answered "maybe" for those in the survey).

[Brian G]

I don't know if this is the thread to post this, but with DC focusing on the reboot, what do you think this will mean for things like the black and white Showcase editions? Will they still be printed or will the focus simply be on the reboot?

It's kind of a silly question, but one that popped in my head.

[evaD]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32809

Are people really that scared of change?

I do realize this poll isn't representational of all fans, but it certainty is representational of the core fans that are already reading DC books.

Many people have already commented on this, but I'll throw my thoughts out there as well. First, the poll should have only had four choices: definitely, maybe, probably won't, definitely won't. A certain percentage of people will always gravitate toward the middle. By eliminating that choice, people would be forced tomake a more definitive decision. In the poll the second and third choices were very similar anyway so they split up that result. Second, the poll did not include the intended audience. The relaunch is intended to grab non comic or lapsed comic readers. All this showed was that some existing comic fans are intending to go along for the ride and some are planning to bail. I'm sure that's not a surprise to DC. Finally, as I've said in other threads, based on what's been released so far, we can't really tell if this will be successful or not. I think to really pull in new readers the content needs to change. If the story telling follows the same old cyclical pattern with the same old superhero cliches, new readers aren't going to stick around. The reason comics have hooked people into coming back each week is the collector mentality. By removing that hook and the belief that just maybe you'll hit the jackpot, the old reason to return week after week is removed.

[hunter gathers]

I disagree with your assertion that the poll represents core DC fans - the only way that could be verified is if being an existing DC reader was a prerequisite to take the survey. Over 10,000 responses seems like a pretty good sample of the potential audience.

I didn't mean core DC fans, but rather core comic fans that would be taking a survey on a site dedicated to comic news. The sample represents people "already in the know" as David alluded to earlier- the audience that DC possibly could lose rather than new readership.

[Dean S.]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32809

Are people really that scared of change?

I do realize this poll isn't representational of all fans, but it certainty is representational of the core fans that are already reading DC books.

That's grim, isn't it?  They've got like 5 titles that are causing excitement among the masses and then a whole pile of blah. 

But, this is the beauty of digital.  None of these will be underprinted.  It won't be a case where one of these titles takes off, but they only printed ~20K paper copies and haven't gotten around to collecting it yet.  Just go buy the digital version. 

Does DC do any focus group testing?  Last night on twitter associate editor Janelle Asselin was pointing people to a survey about women in comics.  I'm pretty sure it is related to her Master's thesis, but I did ask her why DC doesn't already know all of these answers.  The fact that it takes an enterprising associate editor getting her Master's degree and setting up a survey monkey to learn something that DC should be doing a daily business practice tells me they're in DEEP POOP!  They're trying to redo their business, but I don't see any evidence that they know anything about their customers.

[Wood]

Yeah...that CBR survey is depressing, if not surprising.

For shits and giggles, I grouped the percentages into Positive (Very Likely + Likely), Neutral, and Negative (Unlikely + Not At All).  Here are the books sorted by POSITIVE percentage:


Positive   Title
69.80%   Justice League #1
66.60%   Action Comics #1
59.00%   Batman #1
55.60%   Green Lantern #1
47.60%   Aquaman #1
44.30%   Batwoman #1
41.60%   Wonder Woman #1
40.40%   Batman & Robin #1
40.30%   Superman: The Man of Tomorrow #1
38.60%   Green Lantern Corps #1
38.30%   Batgirl #1
37.00%   Nightwing #1
36.40%   Green Lantern: The New Guardians #1
36.30%   Justice League International #1
36.10%   Detective Comics #1
35.40%   Justice League Dark #1
35.30%   The Flash #1
33.70%   Swamp Thing #1
30.60%   Red Lanterns #1
29.90%   Teen Titans #1
29.30%   Animal Man #1
29.20%   Stormwatch #1
28.40%   Batman: The Dark Knight #1
26.00%   The Fury of Firestorm #1
23.60%   Legion of Super Heroes #1
23.20%   Frankenstein, Agent of Shade #1
22.70%   Red Hood & The Outlaws #1
22.20%   Legion Lost #1
21.60%   Demon Knights #1
20.80%   Catwoman #1
20.70%   The Savage Hawkman #1
20.70%   DC Universe Presents #1
20.40%   Suicide Squad #1
20.20%   Blue Beetle #1
19.20%   Resurrection Man #1
19.00%   Supergirl #1
18.90%   Superboy #1
17.80%   Birds of Prey #1
17.70%   Green Arrow #1
17.70%   All-Star Western #1
14.50%   Grifter #1
13.00%   Batwing #1
12.90%   Mister Terrific #1
12.50%   Deathstroke #1
12.20%   Captain Atom #1
11.70%   Hawk & Dove #1
10.70%   Static Shock #1
10.10%   Blackhawks #1
9.90%   Sgt. Rock and the Men of War #1
9.20%   Voodoo #1
8.70%   Omac #1
7.20%   I, Vampire #1

[JimN]

I think most of the members on this forum get WAY to wrapped up in creators. My guess (yes a guess) is that far fewer comic readers really care about the book creator outside of the big guns (Johns, Bendis, Morrison, etc.) than most people want to think.

I consider myself a comic book fan and I will say I am far more swayed by the single paragraph of solicit text than I am by any creator.

Frankly, you should re-think that viewpoint because creators are the driving force behind the quality of the comics you enjoy. To suggest that people get too wrapped up in creators is absurd. Those are the people who understand that the creators of a comic seriously impact the quality of that comic and thus their reading experience.

Jim

[Wood]

Frankly, you should re-think that viewpoint because creators are the driving force behind the quality of the comics you enjoy. To suggest that people get too wrapped up in creators is absurd. Those are the people who understand that the creators of a comic seriously impact the quality of that comic and thus their reading experience.

Jim

I think kamikaze is right though if we're talking percentages. I think a larger percentage of readers buy based on the characters involved than who is writing and drawing the book. Certainly that's not a rule, and I would say most of us are on the other side of the fence, but I think we're in the minority.

[JimN]

That's grim, isn't it?  They've got like 5 titles that are causing excitement among the masses and then a whole pile of blah.

Maybe if they weren't just recycling a bunch of old characters, many of which have never been particularly successful commercially, there would be more interest.

Then again, it's a poll of comics fans so a lot of people probably just want to keep buying the latest version of Batman, Justice League or whatever they were already into...

Does DC do any focus group testing?  Last night on twitter associate editor Janelle Asselin was pointing people to a survey about women in comics.  I'm pretty sure it is related to her Master's thesis, but I did ask her why DC doesn't already know all of these answers.  The fact that it takes an enterprising associate editor getting her Master's degree and setting up a survey monkey to learn something that DC should be doing a daily business practice tells me they're in DEEP POOP!  They're trying to redo their business, but I don't see any evidence that they know anything about their customers.

Where and why would you or I see evidence of focus group testing? It's not like the company would be eagerly revealing that kind of information to the public. Even if DC have answers to the questions Janelle is asking, it may not be information the company wants to share with a young associate editor!

If DC does that kind of market research, the evidence would probably be seen in what they publish and considering the number of Bat-titles and spin-offs of popular books they tend to do, I'd say they've been paying at least some attention to what the comic-buying public actually seems to want.

[JimN]

I think kamikaze is right though if we're talking percentages. I think a larger percentage of readers buy based on the characters involved than who is writing and drawing the book.

He may be right about percentages (we'd need data to know for sure) but I think he's wrong to place a value judgment on the degree to which some of us are actually interested in the people who create the comics we read. It's one thing to say "far fewer comic readers really care about the book creator outside of the big guns". It's quite another to say "I think most of the members on this forum get WAY to wrapped up in creators." The latter is a value judgment.

As you know, creators are important. They make the #$@! comics!

Jim

[Wood]

He may be right about percentages (we'd need data to know for sure) but I think he's wrong to place a value judgment on the degree to which some of us are actually interested in the people who create the comics we read. It's one thing to say "far fewer comic readers really care about the book creator outside of the big guns". It's quite another to say "I think most of the members on this forum get WAY to wrapped up in creators." The latter is a value judgment.

As you know, creators are important. They make the #$@! comics!

Jim

I see the distinction, and think you have a valid point. To me it's ALL about the creators now (well, not ALL, but a huge part...I'll still buy X-men and Avengers books no matter who's doing them).

[JimN]

I see the distinction, and think you have a valid point. To me it's ALL about the creators now (well, not ALL, but a huge part...I'll still buy X-men and Avengers books no matter who's doing them).

I know what you mean. Subject matter and content definitely influence what we purchase and read because most of us tend to read what about interests us. However, getting into a good comics creator is like getting into a good fiction author, film director or musician. Once you find that the work of that person speaks to you, following their work can lead you into areas you might not normally go and lead you to enjoy subject matter you wouldn't have been into before.

Sorry, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I'm just preaching...

Jim

[Kamakazi010654]

I know what you mean. Subject matter and content definitely influence what we purchase and read because most of us tend to read what about interests us. However, getting into a good comics creator is like getting into a good fiction author, film director or musician. Once you find that the work of that person speaks to you, following their work can lead you into areas you might not normally go and lead you to enjoy subject matter you wouldn't have been into before.

Sorry, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I'm just preaching...

Jim

I see what you are saying and I'm not sure I correctly got my point across when using the phrase "far too wrapped up in creators." At this point I'm not 100% certain what exactly it was I was trying to communicate, but I guess I did a poor job. I certainly didn't mean it as any sort of insult.


On another note, I think it is interesting that Nightwing is higher than Batman TDK in the poll. Go Dick Go