The Big Lie #1 (contains spoilers)

[JimN]

Okay, let's keep this thread civil and keep it from getting locked. I'd love it if we could just talk about the comic and whether we think it worked well or not rather than getting into a heated debate about the 9/11 truth movement. Yes, I'm a dreamer...

So, did anybody other than me pick up The Big Lie #1? It was my most anticipated read of the week and I enjoyed it, although I don't quite think it worked. The art is pretty good and it starts off well, with an intriguing situation: a scientist time travels from the future to warn people about the attack on the World Trade Center and to save her husband, who works in one of the towers. She arrives much later than she expected and so she only has an hour to convince her husband an attack is pending and that people need to begin evacuating the WTC. I think this is a great premise and writer/artist Rick Veitch sets it up well.

From that point forward, the book becomes a real mixed bag. There are successes, including a very humorous moment that works perfectly and a dramatic moment where the protagonist encounters her husband, who doesn't know what to make of this person who claims to be his wife but is clearly older. However, there are failures too, primarily the way in which a lot of the the dialogue in the latter half of the book becomes little more than an intense information download. Veitch resourcefully found a clever way to get that information across but it hurts his story and the behavior of at least one of the characters was hard for me to believe.  In the end, a promising story ended up feeling rushed to me and unfortunately, it became a means of conveying information and theories about the 9/11 attacks rather than a truly satisfying story. I knew all along that conveying such information was one of the goals of this comic, and the info is interesting to me, but the goal was clearly to entertain and inform and despite a promising start, I think The Big Lie falls short of it's potential in the entertainment department. It might have worked better as a two or three issues series, where the information could have been imparted more gradually and the story and characters could have had more room to breathe, the dramatic situation would have had more room to develop.

That's my take. Veitch made a game effort with a difficult task but ultimately, I think this comic came up a little short. I still recommend it. It's smart and it's an effort to do something different and ambitious, something the creators feel is important. I think that's to be applauded.

Jim

[Paul]

I was on the fence about this one at the store yesterday.  The art looked good, but I was skeptical about the point of view.  Ultimately, the stack in my hand was large enough, so this went back on the shelf.  Maybe I need to reconsider.  I'm generally a big fan of Vietch's work, especially when I disagree with him!

[Tempo House]

Heh heh. I was wondering who was going to touch that one.  

I jumped on "The Big Lie" when I saw it, out of curiosity. As I was reading it, there were a few thoughts going in my head simultaneously:

1. Been there done that, this is all very old territory. Terms like neocons, PNAC, Leo Strauss, these were terms I used quite a lot at one point in my life, with passion, and with derision. Reading a rehash of 2002-2008 had a strange, and (not a nostalgic one) sense of deja vu all over it, as if I had picked up a Mother Jones magazine from 2004 or something.

2. Why now? This book is at least five years too late, isn't it?

3. Conspiracy theories are the new mythology: they are supernatural explanations to events we can't explain. They are alluring, they make you wonder about the mysteries of the universe, at least the man-made one, and they are damn sexy. You can't help rubberneck them when they happen.

4. Hmmm, I knew that there were war games scheduled for that period, but I didn't know there were so many ... but maybe they were all related or something.

5. The part about so and so was warned about not getting on a plane that week sounds so "a friend of mine has a friend who knows someone who heard that ..." feel to it.

6. Aaaahhhh agit-prop. The preferred method of delivery enlightenment doesn't really change that much over time, does it?

And an afterthought: Ok. But Loose Change was more interesting. Maybe because it was on film, maybe because it was aiming to be documentary-like, maybe because it was the first of its kind. So if I am in the mood for a shot of 9/11 conspiracy (and I can't imagine why I would be), I'd go back to that, instead of "The Big Lie".

General position on 9/11 conspiracy? It is an interesting speculation, most of it quite likely to be pure fiction, although we do know there were some messed up things that went on that day (which noone really denies) that are probably worth looking at to double check, to debunk or just to make sure we haven't missed anything. But at the end of the day, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I am personally more interested in the real life intrigue (and maybe even conspiracies) that took place after 9/11. I find that to be more consequential for where we are now and how we arrived at the new "normal".

Well, maybe Veitch can write a comic on that some day ... But this time, he shouldn't wait for another 5 years, and if he can go light on the agit-prop, that would be great.

[JimN]

I was on the fence about this one at the store yesterday.  The art looked good, but I was skeptical about the point of view.  Ultimately, the stack in my hand was large enough, so this went back on the shelf.  Maybe I need to reconsider.  I'm generally a big fan of Vietch's work, especially when I disagree with him!

I definitely think it's worth reading, regardless of whether the reader agrees with the ultimate point of view of the comic. It seemed to me like Veitch made an effort to cover some different perspectives. Almost inevitably, the sections with "information download" dialogue come off a bit clumsy but overall, I think this is a comic with some strong moments that deserves an audience.

Jim

[Kenney]

2. Why now? This book is at least five years too late, isn't it?

Anniversary?

[JimN]

2. Why now? This book is at least five years too late, isn't it?

The 10th anniversary of the attacks is this Sunday.

3. Conspiracy theories are the new mythology: they are supernatural explanations to events we can't explain.

I don't want to get into the validity or non-validity of conspiracy theories associated with the 9/11 attacks but other than the time travel premise used to set up the story, there's nothing supernatural (ie: beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature) about the material in this comic.

Jim

[BobBretall]

I read a press review copy on-line.

The "twilight zone" time-travel aspect as a framing sequence to the conspiracy theory stuff was inventive, if nothing else.

I liked it from that "twilight zone" angle, but don't buy into the "bombs planted all over the place to bring the towers down" theory being espoused.

The comic was mediocre and seemed to exist to put forward the conspiracy theory.   As a pure twilight zone pastiche, it would have worked better without the conspiracy stuff.  I think just going back in time & trying to convince people to evacuate from the tower & they don't believe you could have been a suspenseful story had it not been muddied with the "planted bombs" angle.

[Tempo House]

I don't want to get into the validity or non-validity of conspiracy theories associated with the 9/11 attacks but other than the time travel premise used to set up the story, there's nothing supernatural (ie: beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature) about the material in this comic.

I don't mean the conspiracy around this one. I mean conspiracies in general evoke that sense in us that there is something to the world beyond what we can see that operates outside of the rules or conventions of the world as we know them. Not all conspiracy theories have this aspect, but the more enduring ones, especially the more elaborate they get, they start acquiring this quality IMO. They are grounded in real people for sure (take the cast of characters in the JFK assassination stories, who are all real people) but the way they are supposed to play out becomes more and more outlandish, and the outlandishness of conspiracy contributes to its endurance.

So maybe a better way to phrase it is that they fill the void left by the absence of the supernatural mythologies by introducing its own elements that happen work outside of the known world.

[Tempo House]

Anniversary?

True ... but to me it came across like dressing up in bell bottom pants to celebrate the anniversary of some John Travolta movie of the 70s, but without the sense of wink wink irony. It felt completely out of place, out of context to me.

[JimN]

I don't mean the conspiracy around this one. I mean conspiracies in general evoke that sense in us that there is something to the world beyond what we can see that operates outside of the rules or conventions of the world as we know them. Not all conspiracy theories have this aspect, but the more enduring ones, especially the more elaborate they get, they start acquiring this quality IMO. They are grounded in real people for sure (take the cast of characters in the JFK assassination stories, who are all real people) but the way they are supposed to play out becomes more and more outlandish, and the outlandishness of conspiracy contributes to its endurance.

So maybe a better way to phrase it is that they fill the void left by the absence of the supernatural mythologies by introducing its own elements that happen work outside of the known world.

I see what you mean. There's a definitely a mythology-like allure to many conspiracy theories.

[Wood]

Didn't read it, don't intend to. But I do find the timing particularly offensive. I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Jeppe]

Didn't read it, don't intend to. But I do find the timing particularly offensive. I'll get off my soapbox now.

I'm with this guy.

[Brian G]

Didn't read it, don't intend to. But I do find the timing particularly offensive. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Sort of reminds me of the people who protest on site every September 11th. You have all year to protest and spout out conspiracy theories. Show some class. Wish this book came out at another time.

I'm getting off that soapbox now too.

[JimN]

Sort of reminds me of the people who protest on site every September 11th. You have all year to protest and spout out conspiracy theories. Show some class. Wish this book came out at another time.

Whether people read the comic or not, whether they agree with it's point of view and the issues it raises or not, the book is coming out now because the people involved with it care about happened on September 11th, 2001. I understand why some people are offended by the ideas behind it but it's not an effort to exploit or make light of a tragedy. Misguided or not, it's quite the opposite. Sure, these creators have all year to "protest and spout conspiracy theories" and all of the people who will honor the dead and remember the tragic events of 9/11 this Sunday have all year to do those things too.  We'll do them on Sunday because it's the anniversary of the tragedy and because we care about what happened, who died and who it affected. The people who made this comic care too. I think it's important to remember that.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.

Jim

[BobBretall]

Sure, these creators have all year to "protest and spout conspiracy theories" and all of the people who will honor the dead and remember the tragic events of 9/11 this Sunday have all year to do those things too. 

To be fair, I'm pretty sure this comic is a "work for hire" affair for the actual writer (Rick Veitch) & artist (Gary Erskine), paid for by the "Truthers" who have the conspiracy agenda to put forth.

I don't think Veith/Erskine are actual proponets of the theories put forth in the comic.

[JimN]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure this comic is a "work for hire" affair for the actual writer (Rick Veitch) & artist (Gary Erskine), paid for by the "Truthers" who have the conspiracy agenda to put forth.

I don't think Veith/Erskine are actual proponets of the theories put forth in the comic.

Whether they are or not, if I remember correctly Veitch has made it clear that he cares about the subject matter and that was the point. This comic isn't the product of people trying to exploit a tragedy.

Jim

[BobBretall]

This comic isn't the product of people trying to exploit a tragedy.

Agreed.   I don't think it's being done for monetary gain, but to put out a message that someone believes in.   

[Brian G]

Whether people read the comic or not, whether they agree with it's point of view and the issues it raises or not, the book is coming out now because the people involved with it care about happened on September 11th, 2001. I understand why some people are offended by the ideas behind it but it's not an effort to exploit or make light of a tragedy. Misguided or not, it's quite the opposite. Sure, these creators have all year to "protest and spout conspiracy theories" and all of the people who will honor the dead and remember the tragic events of 9/11 this Sunday have all year to do those things too.  We'll do them on Sunday because it's the anniversary of the tragedy and because we care about what happened, who died and who it affected. The people who made this comic care too. I think it's important to remember that.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.

Jim

I understand they care, just like the protesters care. They aren't stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble, but sometimes you get a take a step back and think. Let's let these people grieve, and then I'll bring up my point at a later date.

I have no problems with this comic being made. In fact, I may even get it. I understand why it's coming out when it's coming out. I just wish it wasn't. I think sometimes, rather than get a point across, we should just let people respect the day.

That's just me though. I also want to clarify that I don't think this project is intended to exploit the tragedy at all. I just think it would've been a tad more classy if it wasn't coming out during the 10 year anniversary.

[Wood]

Whether people read the comic or not, whether they agree with it's point of view and the issues it raises or not, the book is coming out now because the people involved with it care about happened on September 11th, 2001. I understand why some people are offended by the ideas behind it but it's not an effort to exploit or make light of a tragedy. Misguided or not, it's quite the opposite. Sure, these creators have all year to "protest and spout conspiracy theories" and all of the people who will honor the dead and remember the tragic events of 9/11 this Sunday have all year to do those things too.  We'll do them on Sunday because it's the anniversary of the tragedy and because we care about what happened, who died and who it affected. The people who made this comic care too. I think it's important to remember that.

Now I'll get off my soapbox.

Jim

Ok, well then lucky for me I'm also in the practice of avoiding insane, imbecilic ramblings of madmen.
 

[JimN]

I understand they care, just like the protesters care. They aren't stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble, but sometimes you get a take a step back and think. Let's let these people grieve, and then I'll bring up my point at a later date.

I have no problems with this comic being made. In fact, I may even get it. I understand why it's coming out when it's coming out. I just wish it wasn't. I think sometimes, rather than get a point across, we should just let people respect the day.

That's just me though. I also want to clarify that I don't think this project is intended to exploit the tragedy at all. I just think it would've been a tad more classy if it wasn't coming out during the 10 year anniversary.

I understand but from the point of view of the people making it, this is perhaps the most logical time for it to come out.

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

Ok, well then lucky for me I'm also in the practice of avoiding insane, imbecilic ramblings of madmen.
 

Then what are you doing here?