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Author Topic: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 178  (Read 5516 times)
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Julian Lytle
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« Reply #20 on: 10:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

Oda Sensei is the closest to Kirby in the modern world.
One Volume of One Piece has like a bajillion new characters in it. All Different, All drawn great.
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« Reply #21 on: 10:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »


But seeing Kirby's Captain America lunge into action has the same excitement that Liefeld's X-Force does.

 No No
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I had no problem with the sex or the exploding baby.


comics aren't meant to be popular, get over it people.
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« Reply #22 on: 11:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

Mignola doesn't draw feet either.

But he does draw hoofs
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« Reply #23 on: 11:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

the whole goal with green lantern was not to reboot it.

also the thing in the green lantern war was that
lanterns did not have either the authority or the power to kill a guardian. not killing in general.

the problem is that war of the green lanterns never really cleared that up which it was if not both. 

i thought that
cutting off joker face was just for shock value and would mean nothing.
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« Reply #24 on: 11:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

 

i thought that
cutting off joker face was just for shock value and would mean nothing.

Daniel should consult Garth Ennis circa Preacher V1 for how a moment like that can be earned, used for story progression AND shock value and also be placed in the appropriate place: A Mature Readers title.

Not trying to get all Tipper Gore here, but holy cats is that really a strange spot to pull that stunt when part of this initiative is to get younger folks interest in comics. I dunno, I may be outta touch with what passes as 13 year old entertainment these days.

« Last Edit: 11:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 by S. Earl » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: 11:09 AM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

bleeding cool spoiled David thing in superboy like a week ago.

and the "splat"in superboy makes it more all ages to me then not showing. not showing makes it worst.
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« Reply #26 on: 12:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

bleeding cool spoiled David thing in superboy like a week ago.

and the "splat"in superboy makes it more all ages to me then not showing. not showing makes it worst.

Which is why Hitchcock never showed... Except for the Birds.
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« Reply #27 on: 12:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »



the problem is that war of the green lanterns never really cleared that up which it was if not both. 

There are soooooo many more problems with that storyline than just that.  Bangs Head
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« Reply #28 on: 12:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

There are soooooo many more problems with that storyline than just that.  Bangs Head

yes but i was talking about the problem Jason mentioned.
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« Reply #29 on: 12:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

There are soooooo many more problems with that storyline than just that.  Bangs Head

Pretty sure I feel the same way about Johns' GL as some others feel about Bendis regarding Avengers: Time to move on, you had a good run. Sadly the sales didn't dictate the reboot it needed to escape it's current state of blandness.
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« Reply #30 on: 12:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

bleeding cool spoiled David thing in superboy like a week ago.

That's why I don't look at preview pages or check out spoiled blogs and forum posts.
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« Reply #31 on: 12:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

Look, Vince was taking the Liefeld/Kirby thing to an extreme point, obviously. Let's remember that there is no bigger Kirby fan on this planet than Vince, so I certainly don't think he was belittling Kirby in the comparison as much as trying to fend off the "Liefeld Haterade."



I get that it was vince making an extreme point. I love how much liefeld is a cheerleader for the industry. But the lack of facial expressions the man can draw. the inconsistency with anatomy and the fact he can't draw anything with a sense of perspective is a problem. If it was any other guy or if he was an asshole would we not say that this guy is stealing paying work from quality sequential artists.

Remember Kirby did what artist like Cooke and Quitely do now. His anatomy and perspective didnt make sense in terms of our real world but when you entered the world of their art it was consistent and felt true to their world.

The failings in Liefelds art would seriously get someones portfolio laughed out of a con meeting with big 2 talent scouts. perspectives important. everyone cant be grunting on every page.  I think it does the industry a diservice to have this guy on books while your turning away artist who can do this stuff.  There is no way to say that this guy isnt just working based on his name at this point.

Thats not haterade. The guy had some good character ideas and has interesting ideas for the business. I wouldnt hate on him being an eoc or writing. But for people to put him in the same sentence as kirby or any other working artist when he would be unhireable based on art skill alone if he was 20 and named joe smith, its silly.
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« Reply #32 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

Another great episode, guys.

Haven't read Frankenstein yet, but I can't wait. That "Ant Farm" concept was introduced by Lemire in his Atom back up from Adventure Comics. Pretty cool run with some great Mahmud Asrar art. Speaking of Mahmud, anyone else excited for Supergirl? Based on the previews, it looks mighty purty.

Thats not haterade. The guy had some good character ideas and has interesting ideas for the business. I wouldnt hate on him being an eoc or writing. But for people to put him in the same sentence as kirby or any other working artist when he would be unhireable based on art skill alone if he was 20 and named joe smith, its silly.

I get that, but Rob Liefeld sells books to a certain extent. He has a distinctive and recognizable style that a certain segment of fandom responds to. Love him or hate him, it isn't smart business to take a known quantity off of a book in exchange for a lesser known artist. Hawk and Dove isn't selling out because of the characters or Sterling Gates, it's selling out because Liefeld is on it.
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« Reply #33 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

I have been overly positive about all of this new DC stuff and have really enjoyed all of the books I have personally picked up so far. However even going into it with high hopes and telling myself it was going to be great I could not agree with you guys more about Green Lantern.  No

My problems don't even come from the set up or the opinion that it was not a good first issue for the imaginary person some believe is out there who will pick up a comic book and put it back down because their hand is not held throughout but how did they even fit all of that baggage through the new front door!

I read all of the last few years of GL all the way through War Of The Green Lanterns which I am probably in the minority for liking. Yet, this book needed to be stripped, washed, and re-painted and they did none of that.

What is really upsetting as well is that I wanted to try some of the other GL books but now I don't because its only a matter of time before they all start tying into each other which is fine thats what those books do but if GL is going to suck then I don't want to read the other three.  Bangs Head

I hate saying that but damn that sucked.
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« Reply #34 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »


Thats not haterade. The guy had some good character ideas and has interesting ideas for the business. I wouldnt hate on him being an eoc or writing. But for people to put him in the same sentence as kirby or any other working artist when he would be unhireable based on art skill alone if he was 20 and named joe smith, its silly.

I think that is bit overboard. We are talking about drawing comics not building bridges. He isn't an engineer who can't do math, he is an artist whose style is divisive. Funnily enough his first hired work was when he was 20.
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« Reply #35 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

And I know my argument gets shot down when I bring it up on the show because Chris hates kids, but I just kind of scratch my head when I see these books rated T and T+.  Why would you want to limit your audience right out of the gate?  Isn't that why so many movies are rated PG-13 and not R?  To get more asses in the seats?

It's great for us, no doubt.  These have been some pretty good stories so far.  And maybe the mythical young'uns aren't the audience for this first wave.  I dunno.  

It's merely an observation.

Just strikes me a little funny that out of 27 comicbooks featuring bright, colorful characters we have stories with warning-worthy content.

 - John Byrne out!
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« Reply #36 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

And I know my argument gets shot down when I bring it up on the show because Chris hates kids, but I just kind of scratch my head when I see these books rated T and T+.  Why would you want to limit your audience right out of the gate?  Isn't that why so many movies are rated PG-13 and not R?  To get more asses in the seats?

It's great for us, no doubt.  These have been some pretty good stories so far.  And maybe the mythical young'uns aren't the audience for this first wave.  I dunno.  

It's merely an observation.

Just strikes me a little funny that out of 27 comicbooks featuring bright, colorful characters we have stories with warning-worthy content.

 - John Byrne out!

I am sort of mystified too.
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« Reply #37 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

I know that on the DCBS site they have all of the New52 broken into categories such as Batman, Superman, The Dark, The Edge, etc. but there is the Young Justice category as well. I would say that those are the all ages books but in that category is.

Hawk and Dove
Static Shock
Blue Beetle
Legion Lost
Legion of Super Heroes
Legion Secret Origin
Young Justice

I didn't read Hawk and Dove or Legion Lost and I heard that Static Shock was not exactly all ages so....... Thinking
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« Reply #38 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

And I know my argument gets shot down when I bring it up on the show because Chris hates kids, but I just kind of scratch my head when I see these books rated T and T+.  Why would you want to limit your audience right out of the gate?  Isn't that why so many movies are rated PG-13 and not R?  To get more asses in the seats?

It's great for us, no doubt.  These have been some pretty good stories so far.  And maybe the mythical young'uns aren't the audience for this first wave.  I dunno.  

It's merely an observation.

Just strikes me a little funny that out of 27 comicbooks featuring bright, colorful characters we have stories with warning-worthy content.

 - John Byrne out!

I'm with you. It's like I said last night, I can only conclude that DC has concluded that kids really aren't going to buy these books no matter what.  Now to be fair, as you know my boys and I have been watching the Regular Show together. This morning they said, "Pissed" and I got the stinkeye from my wife. That's another case of, "why?" That show is HILARIOUS and there really isn't any need for profanity. It's funny without it.  Same thing with these books. Do we need murder and decapitation to entice? I hardly think so.

Then again I look at the video games that rule the sales charts and they're as gory as it gets.
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« Reply #39 on: 01:09 PM | Thursday, September 15, 2011 »

Hawk and Dove isn't selling out because of the characters or Sterling Gates, it's selling out because Liefeld is on it.

Its also not selling for the art.  Its selling for the name.  I think even those who proclaim him would see that if not for nostalgia and his  personality.

I think that is bit overboard. We are talking about drawing comics not building bridges. He isn't an engineer who can't do math, he is an artist whose style is divisive. Funnily enough his first hired work was when he was 20.

It is like an engineer who can't do math. Tom as an artist I am a highly paid portraitist. I do sports art for pro teams and athletes and portraits for boards of directors.  I dont however have the sequential story telling ability to work in comics at a certain level. There are quantifiable skills in perspective and consistency and the ability to convey  more than one emotion.  There are all kinds of styles in art in comics. But to have a style you have to be consistent with it.  the ankles joke is one thing. in one panel a character is jumping at you and his back leg looks longer than his front leg. characters will be taller than another character in one panel and then shorter than that character in other.  the pool edging think vince mentioned in the podcast is not a a style.

Your an accountant. It would be like one guy in the office that just consistently messed up the books with bad math and somehow kept getting work cause he had a good personality and people liked doing their taxes with him cause they have done it for the last twenty years and Bad Math is just his Style. Other accountants would be rightfully a bit miffed that he was getting work.
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