11 O'Clock Comics Episode 191

[VinceB]

Believe me. You should be glad I walked away.

Why's that?

[leafinsectman (Dan)]

Kiss and make up guys, kiss and make up!

[Steve Raker]

Great episode/conversation, boys!

I just picked up the First 18 issues of Haunt to do some Capullo cramming tonight.....glad to hear you mention it

[David]

Even if that was the case (and who knows, it might have been), would you try out something new and unproven on a book as eagerly anticipated and hyped as DK2? Seems a little treacherous in my opinion. A book of that (supposed) high-calibre deserved the best effort possible.

The book was going to sell regardless.

[Jared Manning]

The book was going to sell regardless.

On that point, you've got me. Matt Murdock could have done the art in crayon and it would have sold a gazillion copies.

[timber-munki]

Karma to Jay Tomio - Part Deux for the Morrison assessment.

Final Crisis is IMO a brilliant, frustrating near-miss. Whenever I re-read it, the first few issues have a sound track of Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard's Dark Knight score, particularly the Joker stuff - that sense of escalating unease and uncertainty.

The absence of text boxes apart from Dan Turpin's in-story notes along with the choices made by Morrison & the various artists in terms of what they don't show creates a feel that we don't know what is going on, which to me is an excellent meta-commentary on event books and the state of modern super-hero comics inaccessibility to the casual reader - you give the likes of Blackest Night or Siege to a non-reader and they are near enough unpenetrable. To me Morrison & Jones's ability to create such a powerful story within this framework is testament to both their skills as story tellers. It is the ultimate 'show don't tell'.

The 'near-miss' aspect to me lies in the decision to have Final Crisis: Superman Beyond as a tie-in mini when it is  fundamental to the resolution of the story - Make Final Crisis a nine part mini, and the changes in art - not that Pacheo or Mahnke are poor, just that they're not J.G. Jones.

It is my favourite event because it takes chances, some don't pay off, but I'm sure as hell pleased that they tried. One of Morrison's strengths is that he can end a story well - look at his work on Doom Patrol, Animal Man & JLA* as ways to successfully end a run on company property - they're all definitely endings but don't leave the characters hollowed out husks. With Final Crisis Nix Uotan & Bruce's final scenes are beautiful, up there with 'There is another world. There is a better world. Well... there must be."

I get the sense that DC editorial really didn't know what to do with the ideas that Morrison developed with Final Crisis, and the backlash against it has made it easier for them to ignore and walk away from it.

As to the episode, anybody intrigued by Wood's discussion on Richard Fenyman should check out the BBC Horszon prgram Feynman, The Pleasure Of Finding Things Out from 1981 (available on You Tube and other sources) just Feynman talking to camera about stuff and it's riveting.

* any story that finishes with Superman saying to Batman 'you know you love it' is the way to finish a run on a series that everyone knows will never end.

[Andrew Tom]

I think Chris' mike throw is going to be have to be his "signature move" that the audience will hope - scratch that- demands he do every episode. like when the Who smashes their instruments at the end of a show.

I think Chris solidified himself as the "John MacEnroe" of comic podcasts with that move.  It was GOLD!!

[Paul]

As always, an outstanding episode, gentlemen!  Woodrow, your love for the Feynman book is awesome, and I know I shouldn't be surprised that you're a Feynman fan, but it was awesome to hear all the same.  I've been a fan of his since my early twenties when I audited a theoretical physics class in University (full circle, I was allowed to audit the class after I discussed my understanding of Schrodinger's Cat and the Many Worlds Theory, both based completely on what I had gleaned from Peter Milligan's run on Animal Man), and the prof mentioned Feynman often, especially his view that science should be able to be explained to a freshman student, pointedly looking at me every time he pointed this out.  I read the Feynman book, thanks to a Google alert I have, mainly because I've read several of his books, and have spent much time in the car listening to an audiobook of Feynman's letters, which contains a fascinating foreword by his daughter.  One of my favourite anecdotes is when Feynman went to speak to her math teacher to discuss her math grade.  Can you imagine being a math teacher, and your parent teacher interview is with Richard Fucking Feynman?!?  Feynman seems to have been inextricably linked to my life, as I did some web design work back in 2001 for a geologist who knew Feynman from their shared Cal Tech days (that's 2 degrees of separation, placing you at 3, sir).  When this book showed up on my Google alert, I was all over it.  Now, I feel kinda guilty that I didn't mention it to you in the first place.

And for Mr. Neseman, as I write this, I'm having a couple of pints at my local, and just had a conversation about your theory that our palletes change with the seasons, and we totally agree.  It's all about the more full-bodied beers as the weather gets colder.  The bock I'm drinking right now is going down ever so well!

[Wood]

As always, an outstanding episode, gentlemen!  Woodrow, your love for the Feynman book is awesome, and I know I shouldn't be surprised that you're a Feynman fan, but it was awesome to hear all the same.  I've been a fan of his since my early twenties when I audited a theoretical physics class in University (full circle, I was allowed to audit the class after I discussed my understanding of Schrodinger's Cat and the Many Worlds Theory, both based completely on what I had gleaned from Peter Milligan's run on Animal Man), and the prof mentioned Feynman often, especially his view that science should be able to be explained to a freshman student, pointedly looking at me every time he pointed this out.  I read the Feynman book, thanks to a Google alert I have, mainly because I've read several of his books, and have spent much time in the car listening to an audiobook of Feynman's letters, which contains a fascinating foreword by his daughter.  One of my favourite anecdotes is when Feynman went to speak to her math teacher to discuss her math grade.  Can you imagine being a math teacher, and your parent teacher interview is with Richard Fucking Feynman?!?  Feynman seems to have been inextricably linked to my life, as I did some web design work back in 2001 for a geologist who knew Feynman from their shared Cal Tech days (that's 2 degrees of separation, placing you at 3, sir).  When this book showed up on my Google alert, I was all over it.  Now, I feel kinda guilty that I didn't mention it to you in the first place.

And for Mr. Neseman, as I write this, I'm having a couple of pints at my local, and just had a conversation about your theory that our palletes change with the seasons, and we totally agree.  It's all about the more full-bodied beers as the weather gets colder.  The bock I'm drinking right now is going down ever so well!

Paul, it's awesome to know this book connected with a few folks out there, you especially!

[Brian G]

Quick question. Sort of relevant to the episode.

For me I started noticing Miller's change in style with Sin City Hell and Back. He was experimenting which was cool, but it just wasn't my cuppa.  To me, this is when I started to part ways with Miller's work. (Mainly as a writer) I feel like this carried over to DK Strikes Again.

Am I the only who thought this? What was the general opinion on Hell and Back when it came out?

[Andrew Tom]

Quick question. Sort of relevant to the episode.

For me I started noticing Miller's change in style with Sin City Hell and Back. He was experimenting which was cool, but it just wasn't my cuppa.  To me, this is when I started to part ways with Miller's work. (Mainly as a writer) I feel like this carried over to DK Strikes Again.

Am I the only who thought this? What was the general opinion Hell and Back when it came out?

I hadn't really thought about it, but now that you mention it... Hell & Back was my least favorite of the Sin City stories (can't really remember the reason).  I may have to revisit it.   

I have revisitted DK2, and while I don't care for it as much as DKR... there are parts that are pure gold (like Ray Palmer in the petrie dish). 

[thefreakytiki]

Re: Feynman

This sounds like the kind of book that gets nominated for an Eisner and the masses scream that it doesn't deserve it because they never heard of it.

The Tiki

[Wood]

Re: Feynman

This sounds like the kind of book that gets nominated for an Eisner and the masses scream that it doesn't deserve it because they never heard of it.

The Tiki

It's awesome. I don't read much from :01, but if all their books of this quality, I'm missing out.

[thefreakytiki]

It's awesome. I don't read much from :01, but if all their books of this quality, I'm missing out.

Yes you are.  I love First Second publishing is awesome.  Every year at NYCC they have a buy 1 get 1 free sale at their booth.  I'll take you their next year. 


The Tiki

[nilcam]

I've really enjoyed the in-depth discussion on these last few episodes. I did not enjoy Chris becoming the Bill O'Reilly of comics podcasts. His constant talking over of opinions he did not agree with was extremely irritating. Wow.

Anyway, after quite some thought, my definitive Batman story is Arkham Asylum. My favorite Batman story is Year One. The other Batman stories I love are The Cult and The Killing Joke.

[blockhead]

I've really enjoyed the in-depth discussion on these last few episodes. I did not enjoy Chris becoming the Bill O'Reilly of comics podcasts. His constant talking over of opinions he did not agree with was extremely irritating. Wow.

I agree.  I get the sense that Chris is playing a character in those moments, or at least exaggerating for effect, and I understand that some people find that kind of thing entertaining, but to me it's terrible.  When that starts to happen I usually skip forward in the podcast.

[Chris]

I'll be sure to send you both a fucking refund.

Happy Holidays!

[Wood]

I'll be sure to send you both a fucking refund.

Happy Holidays!

   We missed you yesterday

[VinceB]

I'll be sure to send you both a fucking refund.

I just received PMs from three people that think you're being a cock. 

[Chris]

I just received PMs from three people that think you're being a cock. 

I just started a blog telling people their posts were bullshit and how I would do it better.