11 O'Clock Comics Episode 198

[David]

It was very indicative of how I think of most Avatar books.

I'd go along with that.

[aSh]

Gang Starr is one the greatests. DJ Premier and the Guru were an awesome team. Sad about Guru though. RIP.

[Wood]

Gang Starr is one the greatests. DJ Premier and the Guru were an awesome team. Sad about Guru though. RIP.

One of my all time faves. I don't think I've ever made a hip hop playlist without at least one GS jam.

[Andrew Tom]

Glad you talked Neonomicon! I enjoyed it.  But I personally found Burrows' style to be lacking.

Was it in his story telling or just his finishes? 

The reason I ask is because I was under the impression that Alan Moore provides breakdowns and panel layouts with all of his scripts.  I think that they had some supplemental material discussing it way back in 1994 during his run on the Violator mini-series.

Andy

[Chris Campbell]

I'd go along with that.

I guess I was hoping that the art would at least try to rise to the level of the writing, but Burrows' art just seems ... average.  And wonky and stiff in places.  My eye doesn't smoothly go over his illustrations.  I shouldn't have said "style", i actually mean execution.  I've thumbed through several things by him, and his art is always serviceable, but never more than that.

Buy YAY Alan Moore.  The man is a damn wizard.  For realz  

And props to Vince for educating a lot of us on some Cthulu easter eggs. 

[HeroesMask]

On the Watchmen thing you guys all made great points.  I like that David and Wood mentioned that they aren't shitting on it but they just don't really care.

I also appreciate that Wood clarified his statement related to sequels and non-original material.  When I saw his tweet earlier I didn't quite get it in the context of Marvel and DC running with 70+ year old IP.  But since he mentioned entertainment in general not taking chances on new stuff and rehashing.  I agree.

I also agree that certain things are meant to be serialized and certain things are not.  But I seem to remember that originally Watchmen wasn't meant to be limited to a 12 issue comic mini/maxi.  In fact a lot of material was produced for the RPG back in the day.

I also can compartmentalize.  I don't view OT Vader differently based on the prequels.  Chris' analogy to Highlander is a good example as well.  Highlander is on my top 20 movies of all time and 2 is probably close to the very bottom.

[David]

On the Watchmen thing...

Thank you.

[Chris]

Being able to compartmentalize things in entertainment is REALLY hard. It takes a mindset you have to work on.

I find it really hard in sports.

My wife just got me the 2011 World Series DVD collection. I started watching Game 6 a couple nights ago, and when I saw Pujols come to the plate I started getting angry because of how he left in free agency after the season. I had to stop myself and "compartmentalize" the fact that I was watching a game that would lead them to a championship and one of my best moments as a fan. No matter what happened in the weeks following, it shouldn't impact how I felt watching that game again. Not easy.

I try to do the same with movies & comics. Not always successfully, but at least trying has made my enjoyment level rise.

[Julian Lytle]

I guess I'm regular but for me sequels and prequels do effect the brand and at times how I look at the story in whole when they add things to canon.

So yeah Vader being made into a whiny bitch does effect how I look at the old movies (let's not talk about how young Julian was salty to find out Vader wasn't black-fuck that Luke was white it's space damn a race)

Final Fantasy 11,12 & 13 has totally effected the Final Fantasy name for me. Like I don't even want to get into them or Square that much.

All them Friday the 13ths fuck with the old joints.

Blueprint 2 is wack, Hov shoulda known better if fucked up the Blueprint brand.

And I'm not the only person who feels this way.

[Wood]

I guess I'm regular but for me sequels and prequels do effect the brand and at times how I look at the story in whole when they add things to canon.

So yeah Vader being made into a whiny bitch does effect how I look at the old movies (let's not talk about how young Julian was salty to find out Vader wasn't black-fuck that Luke was white it's space damn a race)

Final Fantasy 11,12 & 13 has totally effected the Final Fantasy name for me. Like I don't even want to get into them or Square that much.

All them Friday the 13ths fuck with the old joints.

Blueprint 2 is wack, Hov shoulda known better if fucked up the Blueprint brand.

And I'm not the only person who feels this way.

You had me until you messed with Jaysus Hova the Great.

He's untouchable. Teflon Megatron.

[Chris]

Regarding what should and shouldn't be serialized.

I think that's a ridiculous argument. If you can tell interesting stories with a cast of characters and a constructed universe, you can serialize it. If there is room for more stories (like I believe there is in Watchmen) think why should there be a lock on the door?

Conan Doyle has been dead for 80 years and people LOVE IT when NEW Sherlock Holmes stories are produced. Why? Because they can be great stories. Just because the original creator of a property is no longer involved, it doesn't mean you can't continue to explore the worlds they made.

That was my point about Spider-Man. The original creators haven't touched that character in DECADES! People still seem to enjoy reading it even though almost every angle has been covered 10 times over.

[David]

Not always successfully, but at least trying has made my enjoyment level rise.

It's definitely a work in progress with me.

[Chris]

It's definitely a work in progress with me.

Dude, I totally understand.

It's probably the one thing that I've tried to change about myself in the last couple of years.
It's human nature to judge stuff by association. Very hard to look at things on there own.

[Julian Lytle]

You had me until you messed with Jaysus Hova the Great.

He's untouchable. Teflon Megatron.

TANGENT TIME!!!!!

Fam I KNOW YOU'VE DONE HAD THE HOVA DEBATE.
It happens with all the god emcees (except Biggie cause he only had 2 albums)
You know with all them albums there are his classics Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint-5 mic treasures of awesomeness and the hustle personified and the birther of modern crack rap.
But after that then it gets into a debate that is more vast and intricate than any Alan Moore debate ever.
BP2 has the problem most double disc rap albums face-that it's bloated and needs to be cut down and if so it would've been great. BP2 as is is a middle range Hov disc like volume 1 and Kingdom Come and volume 2 (even though that is the super popular one)

Tangent off


On topic there has to be another creator that they can ride off of at DC other than Moore and Miller. I really miss Morrison's using all of Kirby's stuff all the time now.

Can I get a shot one day to just make a dope ass Ditko Earth 4 styled dick riding effort? #pause

[Wood]

Regarding what should and shouldn't be serialized.

I think that's a ridiculous argument. If you can tell interesting stories with a cast of characters and a constructed universe, you can serialize it. If there is room for more stories (like I believe there is in Watchmen) think why should there be a lock on the door?

Conan Doyle has been dead for 80 years and people LOVE IT when NEW Sherlock Holmes stories are produced. Why? Because they can be great stories. Just because the original creator of a property is no longer involved, it doesn't mean you can't continue to explore the worlds they made.

That was my point about Spider-Man. The original creators haven't touched that character in DECADES! People still seem to enjoy reading it even though almost every angle has been covered 10 times over.

I agree with you, and also agree that it's hit or miss.

Somethings REALLY bother me. Other things with a similar profile don't. And I don't know that there's a formula for it, it's purely emotional.

[Chris Campbell]

TANGENT TIME!!!!!

Fam I KNOW YOU'VE DONE HAD THE HOVA DEBATE.
It happens with all the god emcees (except Biggie cause he only had 2 albums)
You know with all them albums there are his classics Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint-5 mic treasures of awesomeness and the hustle personified and the birther of modern crack rap.
But after that then it gets into a debate that is more vast and intricate than any Alan Moore debate ever.
BP2 has the problem most double disc rap albums face-that it's bloated and needs to be cut down and if so it would've been great. BP2 as is is a middle range Hov disc like volume 1 and Kingdom Come and volume 2 (even though that is the super popular one)

Tangent off


On topic there has to be another creator that they can ride off of at DC other than Moore and Miller. I really miss Morrison's using all of Kirby's stuff all the time now.

Can I get a shot one day to just make a dope ass Ditko Earth 4 styled dick riding effort? #pause

I get more enjoyment out of Blueprint 2 than I estimate I will ever get out of the Watchmen prequels.  Because even average Jay-Z wrecks the competition for me. 

I truly hope that everyone enjoys the prequels.  Like Wood said, if people I trust say its great, then I'll give it a shot.  But its got no goodwill with me right now and its not exciting me as much as others, so its got a mountain to climb with me.  Not saying it can't hit the summit, but its got a tough road to hoe. 

[Julian Lytle]

Dude, I totally understand.

It's probably the one thing that I've tried to change about myself in the last couple of years.
It's human nature to judge stuff by association. Very hard to look at things on there own.

Should things be viewed on their own when they make things to connect to other or previous works?
Let's take Scott's new film coming out this year Prometheus, you can rate this film on it's own merits but it is supposed to connect to Alien also. So it's coming into the game and selling itself because of a previous work of his. In a certain way it should be judged by association.

[Wood]

TANGENT TIME!!!!!

Fam I KNOW YOU'VE DONE HAD THE HOVA DEBATE.
It happens with all the god emcees (except Biggie cause he only had 2 albums)
You know with all them albums there are his classics Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint-5 mic treasures of awesomeness and the hustle personified and the birther of modern crack rap.
But after that then it gets into a debate that is more vast and intricate than any Alan Moore debate ever.
BP2 has the problem most double disc rap albums face-that it's bloated and needs to be cut down and if so it would've been great. BP2 as is is a middle range Hov disc like volume 1 and Kingdom Come and volume 2 (even though that is the super popular one)

Tangent off


On topic there has to be another creator that they can ride off of at DC other than Moore and Miller. I really miss Morrison's using all of Kirby's stuff all the time now.

Can I get a shot one day to just make a dope ass Ditko Earth 4 styled dick riding effort? #pause

I can't front that there was some bubble wrap around the real gems on the double joint, but to me it's HOV's collabo stuff that falls flat. The fact that Hova and Kanyeezy's joint this past year wasn't THE JUMP OFF OF ALL JUMP OFFS makes it a critical failure, to me. Super lofty expectations were not met. And the less said about that Jay/R.Kelly collabomination that better.

[Chris]

Should things be viewed on their own when they make things to connect to other or previous works?
Let's take Scott's new film coming out this year Prometheus, you can rate this film on it's own merits but it is supposed to connect to Alien also. So it's coming into the game and selling itself because of a previous work of his. In a certain way it should be judged by association.

Yes, but if it's Good, Bad or Ugly, does it impact the quality of Alien?

That's the question.

[Julian Lytle]

Yes, but if it's Good, Bad or Ugly, does it impact the quality of Alien?

That's the question.

 The series maybe, that scene with the space jockey, maybe. The thing is the sequels from other film makers have already helped and hurt the brand of Alien. Since these things are not in a vacuum they do effect the works and if they are even experienced. If I had started with Alien 3 I'd never would have seen Alien cause I would've thought it was a terrible concept and franchise.