Unhappy with a commission....thoughts?

[Steve Raker]

I'd email Calero and explain (try not to over-explain) the issue. 

At the least you'll embarrass him and it'll make for a great story.

[Wood]

I always go to a creators sites before deciding to engage them.  If you can't find a blog, DeviantArt page or stiff on Comic Art Fans, chances are you want to pass anyway.

Here is a Calero search on CAF

http://www.comicartfans.com/comic-artists/dennis_calero.asp

I will be honest with you...this to me looks like an artist who doesn't have his own style. The more finished commissions are all so different in style that I really question how much Calero does with his own eye and without the crutch of reference.

[JimN]

There has been some good advice in this thread. It's particularly important to research the artist so you know what to expect and so you understand the higher risk of asking them to draw something way out of their comfort zone. It also helps to understand that more complex subjects are easier to draw away from the hectic, pressure-filled environment of conventions, which isn't to say some artists can't do complex commissions at cons. Above all, as in most business, respect is a key. Buyers should understand why many artists want at least a percentage of payment up front. They don't want to spend their time working on a commission that won't be picked up. Artists should respect what the buyer wants and do their best to deliver.

How does respect relate to this situation? The commission clearly fell short of expectations and I think the best thing to do would have been to address it at the time in a courteous, respectful way. Maybe the artist would have been mad but most of the artists I know would try to find a way to make things right and make sure the customer walked away happy. As long as a complaint is reasonable and expressed respectfully, the response will usually be reasonable too.

When a customer doesn't address his disappointment on the spot, it creates a bit of a worst case scenario, which is what we see here: an unhappy buyer (or his friend), posting about a commission he didn't like and an artist getting bad publicity online when he never had a chance to set things right.

Don't get me wrong: customers shouldn't nitpick commissioned art, expecting artists to keep honing it until it's exactly what they want to see. As Chris said, a commission is a gamble. However, the customer shouldn't have to walk away completely unhappy with what they received for their money either.

Bottom line: don't be afraid to communicate! Reasonable people can usually resolve problems but nobody can solve a problem when they don't know it exists.

[Steve Raker]

When a customer doesn't address his disappointment on the spot, it creates a bit of a worst case scenario, which is what we see here: an unhappy buyer (or his friend), posting about a commission he didn't like and an artist getting bad publicity online when he never had a chance to set things right.

Great point, well said.  Calero shouldn't be the last person to hear about this.

[DonCardenas]

But still... if someone actually pays out for that appearance, I doubt Gaiman just shows up and reads "Get Fuzzy" strips to them for an hour.

Not to derail anything, but I would pay to see that. Then again, I would like to have Gaiman narrate life.

[turtleboy8]

When a customer doesn't address his disappointment on the spot, it creates a bit of a worst case scenario, which is what we see here: an unhappy buyer (or his friend), posting about a commission he didn't like and an artist getting bad publicity online when he never had a chance to set things right.

Just to be clear, I didn't start the thread to bash Calero and get a mob after him, I do love my Batman a lot.  I wanted everyone's honest opinion on the piece, maybe everyone would really like the art and it just wasn't OUR cup of tea.  Other people we showed the piece too said some unkind things, but I didn't post them because I'm not trying to stir the pot (intentionally anyway).  I've e-mailed my friend and told him to try to contact Calero.  I know Pants at CGS had a similar incident with Brian Bolland and I believe he ended up getting it resolved.  Obviously it is harder to get the situation rectified now, but it is pretty hard to tell an artist you don't like his work, even if you did pay money for it.  I appreciate everyone's input, I'll let you know what the final outcome is.

[Former Poet Laureate]

Seriously, I wouldn't have paid $20 for that, much less $200. That's seriously below par. 

Again, I don't understand why one would pay 100 percent up front for anything, sight unseen. I pay creatives all the time in my day job, and I would never do that...at most 50% down, and that's for the total whiners (and/or the really good ones). I only require 1/3 down to begin work on a client I don't know, none at all for my steadies.  It's just bad business, and dude lost you for a client forever unless he makes you happy. I would reasonably ask for a refund, or a new drawing to make you happy. Dude hosed you.

[DonCardenas]

Turtleboy, you certainly did not come off as bashing Calero, if that was a concern. I think we all can agree that you won't always get OA level stuff from commissions, especially during a con. This piece just seems so far below the artists other work that it comes off a bit jarring. Calero is obviously a heavy photo ref guy, but there are basic anatomy and composition issues here that I almost question if he did it at all.

Every artist has a bad day. If this is truly the best he could do, I think the professional route would have been to tell your friend he was not happy with his own art and would have to send him something later. It's not an unreasonable request.

I am not bashing Calero, but this just reeks of wtf?

[steve bryant]

Your friend should contact him.

[Wood]

I've made all manner of "mistake" when it comes to the world of commissions, and so most of the lessons I speak to have been learned firsthand painfully.

As most have said, Jim most recently, realistically this needs to be handled at the presentation of the work.  And I do think there's SOME leeway.  I've had a few pieces that I didn't love. But they were certainly representative of what I'd seen of the artists prior commission works, and so I accepted them and moved on.

I'm a big believer in caveat emptor, and so I think it's paramount as the consumer to try to give yourself the best chance at coming away with a successful experience.

1) Do your research -- As we've mentioned already, in today's day and age there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't have examples to reference for any artist you're interested in, whether it's a legend or someone that's getting their very first Artists Alley table.

2) Reach out to them in advance -- I always reach out in advance for many reasons.  From a practical standpoint, there's starting a bit of a dialog with the person and making a connection. That way you're not a nameless/faceless person that is stopping by the con and randomly (in their mind) asking him/her to do a piece of art for you. While it may be a small thing, I'm convinced that an artist is more likely to give it there all if they feel at least a modest connection with you.  Second, you can get a sense of exactly what their process is. Many artists don't take pre-orders. Others have a list that starts at opening on Friday and fills up. Others take 5 requests per day and start fresh the next. Others only do head sketches, etc...Your mileage will vary. Last but not least, you can get a sense of their pricing. Artists can have massively different ideas of price variations. Some may charge $50 for a head sketch but $75 for a 9x11 full figure. Others may charge $35 for a head sketch and $150 for a full figure. Some may double the price for inks and some coloring, while others may include that as part of their process.

3) Negotiate BEFORE the work is started -- There's a balance between wanting the artist to have total creative freedom and you wanting to have a piece you love and feel was worth the investment. For me, it's a feel with each creator. If I'm just getting a figure, most of the time I have no expectations of backgrounds. In that case, I rarely put qualifiers on it because I want it to be THEIR interpretation of the character I hold dear. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't put SOME qualifiers on it, and artists are usually cool with that.

For example...when I ask for Wolverine, I usually mention that I prefer the longer points on his head gear. And when I ask for Domino, I make it clear I like the short haired version without any kind of wonky 90s headgear. If you don't specify, you can't get mad if you get back something different.

Now if you're investing more money into a more complex piece, I think some direction is key.  For example, in that piece we're discussing from Calero, did your friend make it clear he wanted them in a fist fight? Did he say whether he wanted a close up or perhaps if he would rather have them running at each other? Was it specified to have full figures and backgrounds? Artists -- other than pure pin up people -- are used to working collaboratively and taking direction. They don't WANT to give you a bad piece of art, and are far more open to these kinds of discussions BEFORE they put pencil to paper.

4) Payment and Acceptance -- Some artists insist on being prepaid. In that case, I'm more than likely to pass on their work. There are exceptions. If I had the chance to commission Alan Davis for an original commission, and he asked me for the money upfront, it's done. BUT, I would say at the time that if he didn't have it done by the end of the show, I would be entitled to a refund. If he wasn't cool with that, I could shake his hand and look elsewhere.

Most artists, even if they ask to be pre-paid, will agree to a meeting in the middle. 50% upfront gives them comfort that you're serious and not going to flake on them after they spent hours on your piece, and still gives you leverage to make sure you're satisfied with what they produce.

In many cases, as with this past C2E2, since I couldn't go at the last minute the only pieces I had there to be picked up were commissions I pre-arranged. In that situation, I never pay more than 50% and that's only if it's an artist I know has a real name recognition. Just protecting myself. If Jim Cheung wants 50% upfront, I know that he's famous and omnipresent enough that if the situation got ugly, I have recourse to make a stink (not that I would ever expect that to happen, I was just using him because he's my Grail commission artist and I always seem to miss out). But if I liked an artists work but don't know them personally and only discovered them on the con's Artists Alley list? I probably won't prepay at all. Because the risk of them flaking and my not being able to track them down is too high. But again, I'm not saying that's the ONLY way to proceed -- it's just what makes me comfortable.

[JimN]

Just to be clear, I didn't start the thread to bash Calero and get a mob after him, I do love my Batman a lot.

I understand that and I wasn't suggesting otherwise so if you took it that way, I apologize for being unclear.

I wanted everyone's honest opinion on the piece, maybe everyone would really like the art and it just wasn't OUR cup of tea.  Other people we showed the piece too said some unkind things, but I didn't post them because I'm not trying to stir the pot (intentionally anyway).  I've e-mailed my friend and told him to try to contact Calero.  I know Pants at CGS had a similar incident with Brian Bolland and I believe he ended up getting it resolved.  Obviously it is harder to get the situation rectified now, but it is pretty hard to tell an artist you don't like his work, even if you did pay money for it.

It is hard but it's preferable to the current situation. I realize that's not an easy conversation to begin and I'm not judging anybody here, I just wanted to make the point that the best course of action would have been to give the artist a chance to rectify the situation before doing anything else. As an artist myself, and as someone who has done quite a few commissions at cons, I'd want that chance and I'd want the buyer to be happy with his artwork.

I appreciate everyone's input, I'll let you know what the final outcome is.

Thanks! I'm curious to see how this works out. Hopefully, it will end well for everyone.

[ryan]

I've made all manner of "mistake" when it comes to the world of commissions, and so most of the lessons I speak to have been learned firsthand painfully.

As most have said, Jim most recently, realistically this needs to be handled at the presentation of the work.  And I do think there's SOME leeway.  I've had a few pieces that I didn't love. But they were certainly representative of what I'd seen of the artists prior commission works, and so I accepted them and moved on.

I'm a big believer in caveat emptor, and so I think it's paramount as the consumer to try to give yourself the best chance at coming away with a successful experience.

1) Do your research --

As we've mentioned already, in today's day and age there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't have examples to reference for any artist you're interested in, whether it's a legend or someone that's getting their very first Artists Alley table.

2) Reach out to them in advance -- I always reach out in advance for many reasons.  From a practical standpoint, there's starting a bit of a dialog with the person and making a connection. That way you're not a nameless/faceless person that is stopping by the con and randomly (in their mind) asking him/her to do a piece of art for you. While it may be a small thing, I'm convinced that an artist is more likely to give it there all if they feel at least a modest connection with you.  Second, you can get a sense of exactly what their process is. Many artists don't take pre-orders. Others have a list that starts at opening on Friday and fills up. Others take 5 requests per day and start fresh the next. Others only do head sketches, etc...Your mileage will vary. Last but not least, you can get a sense of their pricing. Artists can have massively different ideas of price variations. Some may charge $50 for a head sketch but $75 for a 9x11 full figure. Others may charge $35 for a head sketch and $150 for a full figure. Some may double the price for inks and some coloring, while others may include that as part of their process.

3) Negotiate BEFORE the work is started -- There's a balance between wanting the artist to have total creative freedom and you wanting to have a piece you love and feel was worth the investment. For me, it's a feel with each creator. If I'm just getting a figure, most of the time I have no expectations of backgrounds. In that case, I rarely put qualifiers on it because I want it to be THEIR interpretation of the character I hold dear. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't put SOME qualifiers on it, and artists are usually cool with that.

For example...when I ask for Wolverine, I usually mention that I prefer the longer points on his head gear. And when I ask for Domino, I make it clear I like the short haired version without any kind of wonky 90s headgear. If you don't specify, you can't get mad if you get back something different.

Now if you're investing more money into a more complex piece, I think some direction is key.  For example, in that piece we're discussing from Calero, did your friend make it clear he wanted them in a fist fight? Did he say whether he wanted a close up or perhaps if he would rather have them running at each other? Was it specified to have full figures and backgrounds? Artists -- other than pure pin up people -- are used to working collaboratively and taking direction. They don't WANT to give you a bad piece of art, and are far more open to these kinds of discussions BEFORE they put pencil to paper.

4) Payment and Acceptance -- Some artists insist on being prepaid. In that case, I'm more than likely to pass on their work. There are exceptions. If I had the chance to commission Alan Davis for an original commission, and he asked me for the money upfront, it's done. BUT, I would say at the time that if he didn't have it done by the end of the show, I would be entitled to a refund. If he wasn't cool with that, I could shake his hand and look elsewhere.

Most artists, even if they ask to be pre-paid, will agree to a meeting in the middle. 50% upfront gives them comfort that you're serious and not going to flake on them after they spent hours on your piece, and still gives you leverage to make sure you're satisfied with what they produce.

In many cases, as with this past C2E2, since I couldn't go at the last minute the only pieces I had there to be picked up were commissions I pre-arranged. In that situation, I never pay more than 50% and that's only if it's an artist I know has a real name recognition. Just protecting myself. If Jim Cheung wants 50% upfront, I know that he's famous and omnipresent enough that if the situation got ugly, I have recourse to make a stink (not that I would ever expect that to happen, I was just using him because he's my Grail commission artist and I always seem to miss out). But if I liked an artists work but don't know them personally and only discovered them on the con's Artists Alley list? I probably won't prepay at all. Because the risk of them flaking and my not being able to track them down is too high. But again, I'm not saying that's the ONLY way to proceed -- it's just what makes me comfortable.

think this whole thing would be great to be pinned under the OA list over in that thread, in spoiler tags. like a mini FAQ about considering commissions

[Chris Campbell]

Burn it.

[Chris Campbell]

If Ryan Ottley can do it, so can we.

I've thrown 2 pieces away that pissed me off. Salvaged some catharsis.

Wood's advice above is excellent. As is Steve's.

[ryan]

Burn it.

If Ryan Ottley can do it, so can we.

for the un-informed/forgetful: http://www.ryanottley.com/archives/535

[Steve Raker]

Burn it.

....on YouTube 

[Jeff B.]

That is unfortunate, if you swapped the stories and the pieces it would somewhat more believable that the Batman sketch cost $200.

There is some great feedback here on how to work out issues with commissions and it seems like it is a situation of your friend not really knowing what course of action to take at what time. 

I am not sure if it is an age thing or not but I feel like as I get older I am much more concise with people regarding my dollars whether it be a person working on my house to an artist sketching something for me.  But there would have definitely been a time in my life where I would have probably accepted something and figured "this is what I get for my money and this is normal" and not felt comfortable to bring it up to the artist at the time of delivery.

[Christopher Stark]

As others have said, that's pretty awful for $200.  But at this point, live and learn.  That's an expensive lesson but a lesson none the less.

[William Joseph Dunn]

On a side note......and I hate to do this.

Though I am a photo realistic artist and don't photo trace ( I even paint and color most things I do)
There are a lot of artists who have popped up and even found work at the big two and in my industry
at upper deck and topps who photo trace. These artists will often be asked to stuff at cons that don't
match their work from home. judging from the uncanny realism of his Jae Lee and Alex Ross Level art
for Marvel and that complete amateur work with no anatomical perspective, I would say there is a chance
a large portion of calero's marvel work is photo traced and he set the commission price so high to hopefully not get them.

I'm not familiar with the guy's work, but that is exactly what I thought when seeing the two pieces side by side.

[Egon2814]

that is honestly one of the worst commissions ive ever seen. shame on the artist because judging by that awesome Batman, he is clearly capable of more than that jugg/colossus piece. pretty messed up that he can hand that to your friend knowing it lacked in quality. however, your friend should have expressed his unhappiness with the piece immediately to the artist. i hope he can get a refund.