Unhappy with a commission....thoughts?

[turtleboy8]

So myself and three friends went to C2E2 this past weekend and had a blast...well three of us did.  My one friend  Josh likes getting a little "higher end" commissions (like $200-$500 range).  So on Saturday he got a Dennis Calero commission of Juggernaut vs. Colossus, Calero charged him $200 up front for an 11x17 which was inks plus greywash.  Saturday night I won a Calero Batman piece at the charity auction for $50 (about 10x10) that was really cool.  After seeing my piece he was very excited seeing how awesome (in our opinions) it looked.  

Fast forward to Sunday, I see him in Artist Alley with his art and ask to see it.  He was very mad about the piece, and thought it was not worth $200 he paid for it.  Since he already paid up front he felt like he didn't have any recourse and didn't go back to Calero, and was upset about it the whole day.

So my first question is if other forum members think the commission is worth $200.  I've posted below the two pics of my art and his.  Every artist has prices, we didn't think the price reflected the quality of the work, but maybe we are worng.  Second, how would you broach the subject, try and contact the artist and see if he would change something on the piece?  If it was a $50 sketch it wouldn't be a big deal, you can't love every single thing you ever buy, but for $200 I thought he should at least have a conversation.  Thoughts?

Ok apparently my pictures are not working, I'll have to post them later when I get home, but the second question is still valid.

[LA Rabbit]

To be honest, that is one of the reasons¹ why I avoid the higher priced stuff and just stick with artists that have prices I can live with.  I figure it is like gambling and never spend more than I can afford to lose.  Sorry your friend is not happy, maybe he can give it to a friend who likes it more.  That would be one helluva nice gift.   






¹Frugality is another reason. 

[Chris]

It's the chance you take by getting commissions.

Sometimes you get something that blows away what you paid for it. Sometimes you feel like you didn't get what you paid for. In my experience it balances out.

Going back to an artist and telling him you want "some" money back because you don't think you got the full amount you paid for is only going to lead to bad things.

My advice is to either buy original art (pages) or to do what Wood does, and that's to find artists that aren't at the higher end of the payscale, but are very talented. I got a commission from Chris Samnee 5 years ago for a very reasonable price. Today it would probably be worth close to a $1000.

Commissions are a gamble. Your friend lost this one.

[Christopher Stark]

Chris hit the nail on the head.  I don't do high end commissions either.  For that cash, I would rather own a page of original art.

But if you are intent on getting commissions, I would ask to see other commissions being worked on.  At least at a con, artists are usually working on another piece at the time and might have one waiting to be picked up.  At least then you can judge what people are getting for their cash.

[legion of daves]

yeah, i usually go for commissions, and if i do i definitely stick to the lower end stuff.  for all the reasons stated, it can be an expensive gamble.  i am against flipping for profit as a practice, but if your friend is really unhappy with the product he could sell it on ebay with a buy it now for the price he paid for it to at least get his money back.

[Ryan 'gobo' C.]

I'm not sure you can compare a 10x10 with an 11x17, let alone a charity piece vs a straight commission.

I've been bummed by commissions before, not having seen the piece I can't really say but it sounds like it's an Apples and Oranges thing.

[glwarm76]

Did your friend look at Calero's previous commissions, specifically commissions he had done for the $200 price point, before he asked for the commission? The type of commission you get for your money can vary dramatically. Some artists include backgrounds, others draw characters without any background, some produce OA quality art, while produce only sketches. Honestly, $200 for two characters on 11x17 paper is not expensive. I wouldn't expect anything mindblowing for that price. Gabriel Hardman does two characters on 9x12 for $250 and I view his commissions as the best bang for your buck in the industry. Getting a solid commission requires research and preparation to ensure that artist is a good fit for the concept and that the value is appropriate. It's too bad your friend didn't get the commission he wanted but at least part of the responsibility for that lies with him.

[JoeyN]

I always check out an artists past commission work online to see if it's worth it to me. I also make it my duty that if I want a full commission (that is more money) from an artist to get in contact with them beforehand to see if they are taking work before the show. Mostly because it gives them more time to work on it, and they aren't rushing to get it done during the weekend.  I have never had an issue this way. I did make one exception at NYCC last year by getting something done at the show, and did not get as much as I thought for the cost. Just a live and learn experience.

Honestly, $200 for two characters on 11x17 paper is not expensive. I wouldn't expect anything mindblowing for that price.Gabriel Hardman does two characters on 9x12 for $250 and I view his commissions as the best bang for your buck in the industry

After getting two Batwoman done last year (one by Hardman, and one by JK Woodward), for $200 an artist has to come even close to their quality for me to drop cash like that on a commission/sketch.  If not, I'd rather just buy an original page from something they worked on.  One artist like that is Tony Moore, where a bunch of his pages are  cheaper then getting a sketch done (not to mention a lot easier to get because of his lottery system), and there are always some good deals. Which is why I bought a Fear Agent page.



 

[S. Earl]

Which reminds me: I paid for my first commission a few months ago. What's the average wait time that's acceptable? I honestly have no idea if 3 months is typically long enough to get the commission back, or if it usually takes longer. The artist in question is awesome just got announced as on a monthly Marvel book, likes pugs, and rhymes with Borton.

[Dean S.]

Echoing what folks have said on this thread, this is what happens with commissions.  Some are awesome, some are blah.  

Usually after getting some "blah" commissions, I start guying published art exclusively for awhile.  But, within months I'm dipping my toes back into commissions until I get another lousy one (or two).  

I'd also agree with the sentiment that $200 for an 11x17, 2-character piece isn't that expensive in today's market.  There are lots of guys in that price range who are only medium names.

The only place I'd differ from the other advice on here is whether your friend should mention it to the artist.  If he's really upset about it, then I don't see a problem with mentioning it.  I never would never do it personally, but what's it going to hurt?  If the artist decides to get all cranky about it, big deal....  Your friend wasn't going to get another commission from him anyway.  And there's an off chance that the artist offers some kind of compromise.  You never know....

[JoeyN]

Which reminds me: I paid for my first commission a few months ago. What's the average wait time that's acceptable? I honestly have no idea if 3 months is typically long enough to get the commission back, or if it usually takes longer. The artist in question is awesome just got announced as on a monthly Marvel book, likes pugs, and rhymes with Borton.

I would just contact him and ask about it, after a month or so I would.

[S. Earl]

I would just contact him and ask about it, after a month or so I would.

Right on. I didn't want to seem pushy. His art dealer is a super nice guy so I'm sure asking what's up won't be a problem.

[JoeyN]

Right on. I didn't want to seem pushy. His art dealer is a super nice guy so I'm sure asking what's up won't be a problem.

Yes Paolo is a very nice guy, and the best Dealer I have dealt with.

[Dean S.]

Which reminds me: I paid for my first commission a few months ago. What's the average wait time that's acceptable? I honestly have no idea if 3 months is typically long enough to get the commission back, or if it usually takes longer. The artist in question is awesome just got announced as on a monthly Marvel book, likes pugs, and rhymes with Borton.

Geez.....wait times vary.  I have 3 outstanding right now.  One from last June, one from last October and one from December.....

On one hand, you do want to make sure they haven't forgotten you.  On the other, you don't want them to grunt out a mediocre piece just because they feel like they've kept you waiting.  You really want a masterpiece from them and hovering isn't the way to do it.

I've done a few commissions with Steve Rude and he (or his wife) does a wonderful thing where they send an email out to all the people "in line" saying where he is, how long the wait list is and which pieces he's working on over the next few weeks.  Very cool...

[glwarm76]

The comic art world is a small place. Your reputation may determine whether you get an OA piece you want or whether an artist will go the extra mile on a commission. Even though your friend may not ask for another commission by Calero, how he handles himself here may effect his ability to get commissions or OA in the future. 

[glwarm76]

Yes Paulo is a very nice guy, and the best Dealer I have dealt with.

Agreed. Paolo is the best.

[steve bryant]

A few suggestions, not necessarily related to this situation, but some possible guidelines:

1) Be conscious of the kind of work the artist does. It's probably best not to ask for big hulking heroes from a guy who specializes in realistic work. Or to ask an artist known for drawing monsters to do cheesecake pin-ups. Or to ask someone whose body of work is static images to draw a kinetic scene. And so on...

2) Be careful not to visualize too many details. If your commission reads like a laundry list of details that you would like to see added in, there's a good possibility that the artist will be more focused on addressing every detail on the list, and solving those problems, than he/she will be on composition, etc.

3) Manage expectations. If you have a clear-cut image in your head of exactly how the picture should look, chances are you'll be disappointed. Few can compete with the spectacle of what's in your imagination.

Again, I don't know the particulars of this situation, but these might be some factors to consider for anyone thinking about getting a commission down the line.

[ryan]

A few suggestions, not necessarily related to this situation, but some possible guidelines:

1) Be conscious of the kind of work the artist does. It's probably best not to ask for big hulking heroes from a guy who specializes in realistic work. Or to ask an artist known for drawing monsters to do cheesecake pin-ups. Or to ask someone whose body of work is static images to draw a kinetic scene. And so on...


3) Manage expectations. If you have a clear-cut image in your head of exactly how the picture should look, chances are you'll be disappointed. Few can compete with the spectacle of what's in your imagination.

agreed. i just posted a commission over in the OA thread that fits pretty well these 2 suggestions. the outcome i am very happy with when all is said and done, but i should have either been a little more specific in what i wanted, instead of giving complete free reign, or should have managed my expectations more since i left it so open ended*

*all i asked for was 'Spidey vs Green Goblin and 1 other Sinister Six member. have at it'

[erikh42]

Which reminds me: I paid for my first commission a few months ago. What's the average wait time that's acceptable? I honestly have no idea if 3 months is typically long enough to get the commission back, or if it usually takes longer. The artist in question is awesome just got announced as on a monthly Marvel book, likes pugs, and rhymes with Borton.

Keep sending polite emails.  I've waited up to 6+ months for a commission.  I would check in with the artist about once a month, just so they wouldn't forget who I am.  Be more firm if time goes on and they stop responding to your emails.  (especially if you've already paid!).

[S. Earl]

Keep sending polite emails.  I've waited up to 6+ months for a commission.  I would check in with the artist about once a month, just so they wouldn't forget who I am.  Be more firm if time goes on and they stop responding to your emails.  (especially if you've already paid!).

I actually emailed Paulo this morning after I posted in this thread, inquiring and explaining I was just curious how long the process is typically. He responded within minutes! He and Mike met up at C2E2 this weekend and Mike actually mentioned to him he was sorry he took so long on this piece and he will be getting to it soon. Class acts all around.