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Author Topic: Unhappy with a commission....thoughts?  (Read 6272 times)
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boshuda
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« Reply #120 on: 08:04 PM | Friday, April 20, 2012 »

Boshuda I wasn't trying to start an uproad, just wanted everyone's opinion if the piece was really that bad, and if anyone had ever contacted an artist after the fact.

Sorry.  I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, just saying that I feel if someone is going to go complain to a company/person/whatever it's usually polite to do so before posting things on the internet.  It's just so the person has a chance to rectify their mistake before being crucified.  Not that he was going to go complain or anything like that.  It actually seemed like he wasn't going to complain and he was more ooking for some reassurance.  Misery loves company and all that.
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« Reply #121 on: 09:04 PM | Friday, April 20, 2012 »

Read this article at iFanboy.

http://ifanboy.com/articles/con-etiquette-how-to-ask-for-a-sketch/

While I agree with a lot of what Molly says... I can't agree that as a patron of the artist, you're not allowed to confront the artist or ask him to fix something.  If it were free, then that would be a different story.  But if I pay a premium for a premium piece of art from a premium artist, then I damn well better get the kind of work they're capable of.

Oh... and btw, I've never tipped an artist who charges a premium price for his/her artistic services.  It's like tipping Paul McCartney after you've paid him a premium to play at your birthday party.  Tip the guy, who's self publishing his mini-comic.  Adam Hughes doesn't need a tip.
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« Reply #122 on: 09:04 PM | Monday, April 23, 2012 »

So here's my Spidey Jam piece and I love how almost everything came out...but then there's David Mack's brown Venom at the bottom corner.  Yuck.  I admit that I only paid like $30 for it, but I had to wait two days for him to return it to me and I mean who makes Venom brown?  Really?  It doesn't even look like David Mack.  It looks like he didn't really want to do it or something but he said yes and even said that he WANTED to do Venom.  Every time I see him now I get frustrated.
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« Reply #123 on: 10:04 PM | Monday, April 23, 2012 »

i did have the same thing happen to me last year. i ordered a commission of a character the artist wasnt familiar with. i had seen other work he did the entire weekend and felt mine wasnt up to par. i decided there wasnt anything i could do about it and never framed it.
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« Reply #124 on: 06:04 AM | Saturday, April 28, 2012 »

man this type of crap really ticks me off as an artist (on the low end) I always try to give great work to people that are willing to pay for it. And im charging no where near the price of that jugg/colosus piece and I know damn well i do better work than that.

What a lot of people don't understand sometimes is the difference between a sketch and a commission and this is how I view it.

this is what I do at cons as sketches for the most part for usually $25 on 9x12 bristol


For commissions I do 11x17 ( but I usually take these home to work on so they can pick it up the next day or I can mail it to them for around $75


And of top of that I usually throw a print in as a thank you

BUt then again im just a no name guy not on a big name book or anything so I feel im obligated to try my best to hook up people that want my art.
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« Reply #125 on: 08:04 AM | Saturday, April 28, 2012 »

Looks really good Ben, I'll definitely grab something from you if we overlap at a con.
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« Reply #126 on: 08:04 AM | Saturday, April 28, 2012 »

would be cool but unfortunately I don't do many cons anymore because the cost of them keeps rising and less and less people are spending money. This is stuff I just do as a fun side job for the most part
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« Reply #127 on: 09:04 PM | Saturday, April 28, 2012 »

So here's my Spidey Jam piece and I love how almost everything came out...but then there's David Mack's brown Venom at the bottom corner.  Yuck.  I admit that I only paid like $30 for it, but I had to wait two days for him to return it to me and I mean who makes Venom brown?  Really?  It doesn't even look like David Mack.  It looks like he didn't really want to do it or something but he said yes and even said that he WANTED to do Venom.  Every time I see him now I get frustrated.


1. Even with the Mack work that is a sweet jam piece.
2. Mack is a notorious photo-tracer. People need to not get con sketches from photo-tracers.
3. Who does Venom Brown? your telling me he didn't have a black pen.
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« Reply #128 on: 12:04 AM | Sunday, April 29, 2012 »

1. Even with the Mack work that is a sweet jam piece.
2. Mack is a notorious photo-tracer. People need to not get con sketches from photo-tracers.
3. Who does Venom Brown? your telling me he didn't have a black pen.

Okay, I've gotta ask... what's the deal with the Mack hate?

I know he had some issues with photo-ref on a Marvel book a few years back, but his previous (and continuing) work on Kabuki and the fact that he's one of the most genuinely engaging, friendly, and talented dudes in comics makes me get a little defensive whenever I see people disparage his name like some of the other more notorious perpetrators out there. (of course, in all fairness, maybe those other guys are being treated just as unfairly, I dunno)

I just don't understand how someone like him gets this bad a reputation.
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« Reply #129 on: 09:04 AM | Sunday, April 29, 2012 »

Okay, I've gotta ask... what's the deal with the Mack hate?

I know he had some issues with photo-ref on a Marvel book a few years back, but his previous (and continuing) work on Kabuki and the fact that he's one of the most genuinely engaging, friendly, and talented dudes in comics makes me get a little defensive whenever I see people disparage his name like some of the other more notorious perpetrators out there. (of course, in all fairness, maybe those other guys are being treated just as unfairly, I dunno)

I just don't understand how someone like him gets this bad a reputation.

http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2008/06/david-mack-loves-adam-hughes.html

David Mack not only lightboxes from magazines and photos, but like Greg Land did with Travis Charest, Mack
routinely traced from published Adam Hughes art.  He may be a nice guy. But he is a lazy artist who rips off
other artists.
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« Reply #130 on: 10:04 AM | Sunday, April 29, 2012 »

So here's my Spidey Jam piece and I love how almost everything came out...but then there's David Mack's brown Venom at the bottom corner.  Yuck.  I admit that I only paid like $30 for it, but I had to wait two days for him to return it to me and I mean who makes Venom brown?  Really?  It doesn't even look like David Mack.  It looks like he didn't really want to do it or something but he said yes and even said that he WANTED to do Venom.  Every time I see him now I get frustrated.


There are several lesson to be learned from this:

1.) Within reason, it's a good idea to tell an artist what materials and techniques you want to them to use for your commission. That way, if somebody is seeking a commission in india ink they won't get brown ink or markers, or some other material. If they want or don't want washes they should specifically ask about that too and it's even a good idea to request a commission on bristol board if that's what you want. It's best to give artists as much creative freedom as possible (it tends to yield the best work) but if you're commissioning a piece, you need to make your criteria clear and if the artist doesn't want to do it, they can always say no.

2.) Understand the nature of the artist's work and if you want their best, play to their strengths. I think that's been mentioned in this thread already but it bears repeating. Some artists are more versatile than others. Some love a challenge and can draw a wide variety of subjects effectively and others flounder when asked to get outside their comfort zone, especially in a convention environment. Asking an artist like Mack, who specializes in delicate, photo-referenced, realistic watercolors (primarily of women) to draw an extreme-lookinhg character like Venom is a potential mismatch. Considering his specialty, it might have made more sense to ask him to draw the Black Cat or at least a more human-like Spidey villain.
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NeverWanderer (Joey Cruz)
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« Reply #131 on: 04:04 AM | Monday, April 30, 2012 »

http://jimsmash.blogspot.com/2008/06/david-mack-loves-adam-hughes.html

David Mack not only lightboxes from magazines and photos, but like Greg Land did with Travis Charest, Mack
routinely traced from published Adam Hughes art.  He may be a nice guy. But he is a lazy artist who rips off
other artists.

I'm familiar with that blog post, and the ones it links to. I kind of find the blogger more obnoxious than the affronts he calls out Mack for, but it's fair that he found those similarities. Mack responded to them as follows:

"About the reference to Adam Hughes.... When preparing for the look of this book, I wanted to really embrace the comic book look of things while keeping things looking realistic as well, and I'm a big fan of Adam's ability to do that and I was looking at a lot of his work, among others, as a kind of training wheels in considering styles, and getting started on this issue.......This was one of the first pages that I drew in this issue, getting into the vibe for the series and you may be right that I referenced it too heavily. Sometimes when you are getting rolling on a project it takes a few pages to work the influences out of your system. So props to Adam, you have to give credit where credit is due, and I hope this will be viewed as more of an homage and not be distracting to you in the context of the rest of the story."

"When I was doing the second Echo story in between the Bendis/Maleev run, I tried to make it look like the Maleev DD to fit into the continuity.In this story the images of DD has Iconic DD looks from Iconic DD artists for reasons based in this particular story. I'll comment more on it when the issue is out, so as not to spoils."


Artistic talent is not limited to one's ability to create figure drawings, though I understand that for many comic artists, that's their bread & butter. Mack has worked in a multitude of mediums and styles and always brings a distinct visual flare to his work that is uniquely his own. He's a "fine artist" by education, and one of the most notable for bringing that sensibility to comics. In the cases of those covers and (to a far lesser degree) the interiors, perhaps his major flaw here was in thinking with a fine artist's brain instead of a comic artist's brain.

He uses the original images as jumping-off points to create his own presentation. Look at the panels; in each, he references only the shape or angle of the human figure -- and even then, sometimes he wont use the whole figure -- and then creates a wholly original image around it.

I understand why some might cry foul when dealing with an industry that notoriously mistreats its artists, but I think some level of context is important when judging one case from the next. In Mack's case (regardless of how friendly he is), I see a shortsightedness and misunderstanding of what's expected from him in this medium, but I do NOT see someone maliciously or sneakily swiping an image to hit a deadline or steal the previous artist's credit. And, again, considering the entire body of work surrounding those few instances, I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry, I know this was all hashed out years ago and is a serious digression of the thread topic and I'll drop it after this post (though, I'd be happy to continue the debate in another thread, should that be preferable). I just find it frustrating that four years after the fact, the takeaway from that whole debacle is (paraphrasing) "Mack is a lazy tracer." And, if it's gonna keep being brought up as a never-ending reminder, I find it only fair to bring up the other side of the argument as well.
« Last Edit: 04:04 AM | Monday, April 30, 2012 by NeverWanderer (Joey Cruz) » Logged

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« Reply #132 on: 05:04 PM | Monday, April 30, 2012 »


Sorry, I know this was all hashed out years ago and is a serious digression of the thread topic and I'll drop it after this post (though, I'd be happy to continue the debate in another thread, should that be preferable). I just find it frustrating that four years after the fact, the takeaway from that whole debacle is (paraphrasing) "Mack is a lazy tracer." And, if it's gonna keep being brought up as a never-ending reminder, I find it only fair to bring up the other side of the argument as well.

Its the same as a baseball player caught using steroids. technically Arod was only implicated for one year of his career. But it calls into question everything. Now when you see Macks work you have to think, Is that something mack came up with or did he lift it from another artist and I we just havent found out who yet.  I could care less about the photo traces. Again there is graphic art that isn't much more than that being used for movies like scanner darkly and commercials.  Its the lifting from other artists that has always felt wrong to me.


I agree its a digression, I mostly brought it up to point out that its on the commissioner to understand when they are commissioning a rotoscope artist to do a sketch, they might not get what that artist does in there book.
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