Jim Lee Speaks about Alan Moore...

[RedMoses]

The only interesting twist that made me not put it in the same thread was the fact that Moore would actually EARN $$$ from Before Watchmen.  In my kooky mind it felt like a tangent.   

Now, I could be mistaken, but I could swear I've heard/read Alan Moore say that he will not accept money from DC regarding Watchmen, as it'd be acting as consent to their behavior towards him. If I'm remembering right, I thought he told them to just give his share to Gibbons.  

Of course, I could be confusing my Alan Moore outrages too.

[steve bryant]

Now, I could be mistaken, but I could swear I've heard/read Alan Moore say that he will not accept money from DC regarding Watchmen, as it'd be acting as consent to their behavior towards him. If I'm remembering right, I thought he told them to just give his share to Gibbons.  

That brings up an excellent question, "Now that Alan Moore has blacklisted Dave Gibbons, who will Moore give his share of the Watchmen money to?"

How about the inker? Nope, that's Dave Gibbons, too.

Next in line would be colorist John Higgins, but he's involved in Before Watchmen, so he's probably on Moore's Enemies List.

Letterer? Nope. Gibbons again.

Editor? Len Wein, who, in addition to giving Moore his start (reinventing a character of Wein's own co-creation), Wein is also involved in Before Watchmen, so he's on Moore's craplist, as well.

I'm really hoping it's Steve Ditko, since his Objectivist views would preclude him from receiving "unearned" monies. I can imagine the debate between Moore and Ditko now......   

[steve bryant]

Image from http://ronsworschach.tumblr.com/

[Robert]

Image from http://ronsworschach.tumblr.com/

  I just saw that episode of Parks and Recreation.  Classic.

[S. Earl]

Image from http://ronsworschach.tumblr.com/

Oh Man, I'm dying. That is the best use of Tumblr of all time.

[RedMoses]

I've heard that there are a couple people left who haven't made it onto his blacklist.

Perhaps he should have accepted the money and used it to self-publish, or fund projects by talents that he believes would elevate the medium.

[Wood]

People who listen to the show or chat on these forums know I love Alan Moore -- the creator. I think he's so far and above any other living comic book writer that I almost can't see how it's up for debate.

I also think there are a LOT of creators who have been wronged, in varying degrees, by the corporate comics world.

That said, I really struggle with Alan's situation. By his own admission he was offered the full and complete rights to Watchmen years ago if he were willing to agree to create some more works in the playground. He opted not to. He had a CHOICE...something that most creators and their families would've killed for.

He wasn't wrong or right in his path. But it was HIS path.

Was I thrilled when DC announced Before Watchmen? No.
Is it a money grab? Of course, they're in the business of making money.
But do I think DC should have some moral high ground and not create these books? No, I think they have every right to.

[RedMoses]

I'm torn.  I agree COMPLETELY with everything you just said. But it still feels wrong, because I am such an advocate for creators' rights.

That being said, I love these characters and these creators, so I'm in.  Ultimately I'm here for the stories and not the politics.

[thefreakytiki]

Perhaps he should have accepted the money and used it to self-publish, or fund projects by talents that he believes would elevate the medium.

I agree, unfortunately Mr. Moore has publicly said time and time again that he refuses to read ANY modern comics because they are not up to his standards.  That comment drives me nuts.  He is commenting on stuff he has NEVER READ.  There are AMAZING books out there in print right now.  

Alan Moore could have actually (if he so chose) start a brand NEW publishing company with all the money he refuses.  He could have filled the publishing line with "worthy" creations.  He has the power to REALLY change things... but...

oh well.


the Tiki

[evaD]

People who listen to the show or chat on these forums know I love Alan Moore -- the creator. I think he's so far and above any other living comic book writer that I almost can't see how it's up for debate.

I also think there are a LOT of creators who have been wronged, in varying degrees, by the corporate comics world.

That said, I really struggle with Alan's situation. By his own admission he was offered the full and complete rights to Watchmen years ago if he were willing to agree to create some more works in the playground. He opted not to. He had a CHOICE...something that most creators and their families would've killed for.

He wasn't wrong or right in his path. But it was HIS path.

Was I thrilled when DC announced Before Watchmen? No.
Is it a money grab? Of course, they're in the business of making money.
But do I think DC should have some moral high ground and not create these books? No, I think they have every right to.

I agree with every thing you and Jim are saying. In fact, I'll go a step further. How would not producing Before Watchmen be taking a moral high ground? Who would letting a much loved work go out of print be taking the moral high ground? Whose moral high ground?

Does Alan Moore feel as though DC pulled a fast one on him? Apparently so. He's said that he couldn't have imagined the book remaining in print for all this time. Is it possible that the people who wrote up the contract also felt that way? Why not? Who could have predicted the extreme success that book has seen? I'm against big business it almost every case. I'm much more on the side of creator rights, but in this case...
Moore needs to get over it and so do we. What does he want the rights for? To make money? He's passed on money stemming from the material in the past, so that can't be it. To do more with the characters? They offered him that opportunity and he's passed on that as well.
Why don't we ask where Moore's moral high ground is?

[Jordan]

Wait, Moore was offered the rights in exchange for some new stories!?

Alan, WTF man?

The more I learn about all this business, the more and more confusing it gets.  I mean, Alan Moore the creator is a god, don't get me wrong; one of the first creators I read and I still love his work.  But other then that writing comics, he seems like a fucking idiot. 

[evaD]

Wait, Moore was offered the rights in exchange for some new stories!?

Alan, WTF man?

The more I learn about all this business, the more and more confusing it gets.  I mean, Alan Moore the creator is a god, don't get me wrong; one of the first creators I read and I still love his work.  But other then that writing comics, he seems like a fucking idiot. 

I don't know about idiot, but he doesn't always come across in the best light. In some interviews he comes across as childish, sometimes bitter. I don't know if I've ever heard or read anything involving him where I thought he sounded intelligent and together.

[malpractice]

That said, I really struggle with Alan's situation. By his own admission he was offered the full and complete rights to Watchmen years ago if he were willing to agree to create some more works in the playground. He opted not to. He had a CHOICE...something that most creators and their families would've killed for.

that's not true though. Moore and Gibbons were NEVER offered the FULL and COMPLETE rights to Watchmen EVER. Moore and Gibbons were offered the rights to reprint their own TPB collection of Watchmen in exchange for being involved in the prequels in some capacity. Keep in mind this was after it sold a million copies (pretty much anyone who wants a copy has it anyway), it would have to compete with the prequels on the shelf, and DC's version of the trade. Hardly a fair or respectful deal, more of a slap in the face.

[David]

Wait, Moore was offered the rights in exchange for some new stories!?

Why would he write new stories when he's stated everything he wanted to say are in those twelve issues?

[William Joseph Dunn]

that's not true though. Moore and Gibbons were NEVER offered the FULL and COMPLETE rights to Watchmen EVER. Moore and Gibbons were offered the rights to reprint their own TPB collection of Watchmen in exchange for being involved in the prequels in some capacity. Keep in mind this was after it sold a million copies (pretty much anyone who wants a copy has it anyway), it would have to compete with the prequels on the shelf, and DC's version of the trade. Hardly a fair or respectful deal, more of a slap in the face.

Yeah, it's basically "we are going to give you what you thought we originally agreed to, but we are going to add some more strings to it first".

I know everyone likes to point out that, "Alan didn't read the contract" or "Alan signed the contract, so tough titties", but the reality of it is, even if he had a kick ass lawyer go over his contract with a fine tooth comb, there is a really good chance things would have turned out the way they did anyway. The reason? Even if you are in the both moral and legal right, an artist does not have the type of resources that can defend themselves from a corporation like Warner Bros or Disney. They have the means to tie a case up in the courts forever and bankrupt an individual if they want.

Luckily the Big 2 haven't figured out a way to monopolize the digital realm of comics, which is where the future of comics is anyway. The "next Watchmen" will probably be a digital comic.

[evaD]

Why would he write new stories when he's stated everything he wanted to say are in those twelve issues?

Which leads to the question, why does he want ownership if he's done with them?

[David]

Which leads to the question, why does he want ownership if he's done with them?

Because he doesn't want anyone else to butcher his children?

[JimN]

Yeah, it's basically "we are going to give you what you thought we originally agreed to, but we are going to add some more strings to it first".
I know everyone likes to point out that, "Alan didn't read the contract" or "Alan signed the contract, so tough titties", but the reality of it is, even if he had a kick ass lawyer go over his contract with a fine tooth comb, there is a really good chance things would have turned out the way they did anyway. The reason? Even if you are in the both moral and legal right, an artist does not have the type of resources that can defend themselves from a corporation like Warner Bros or Disney. They have the means to tie a case up in the courts forever and bankrupt an individual if they want.

That's a pretty big assumption. I understand your point that it's hard for the little guy to fight big business because the latter can overwhelm and out-last them with larger financial resources. I've seen that dynamic at work in person and it's more than a little scary. However, we can't possibly know what would have happened if Moore "had a kick ass lawyer go over his contract with a fine tooth comb" back in the -80s before he signed it. Maybe he would have rejected the deal and the terms would have ended up being different. Maybe the project wouldn't have happened or perhaps things would have gone exactly as they have... we just can't know. What we do know is that Moore says he didn't read the contract carefully and that whatever the contract says, it gives DC the rights to Watchmen. They've actually handled them well over the years, presenting the book beautifully and respectfully in various editions and helping it reach a huge audience.

There's an assumption of corporate guilt in a lot of these discussions, an assumption of shady dealings and malicious manipulation and all of that may have happened but as far as I can tell, the only evidence for any of it seems to come from Moore himself. He seems to be the source of all the tales of how he was swindled and treated poorly and it's hard to take what he says at face value since he seems to leave a trail of burnt bridges in his wake. How do we know he's giving us anything like a fair and accurate account of events or of the actual contract? I'm not suggesting he's lying, merely pointing out that he's provided us with his version of events, not necessarily the facts, and we don't know if his version of events is accurate.

[JimN]

Because he doesn't want anyone else to butcher his children?

Maybe DC should just re-purpose them and have them meet in a mountain resort and exchange stories about their erotic adventures.

Jim

[David]

Or create a series featuring Captain Atom, the Question, Peacemaker, Blue Beetle, Nightshade, and Thunderbolt.