Question for hip hop afficionados

[ThePatheticClub]

I'm looking for something specific in the genre.

I have heard hip hop I love, and I have heard hop hop which I find revolting. It is a genre I'm unfamiliar with however. Pretty much all the mainstream stuff is gross to my ears. I need suggetions for serious innovators in the genre. But I also want something lyrically interesting and possibly dealing with literary themes or uplifting motivating subjects. You know, in the vein of "I can make a difference and make my dreams come true cause I'm a motivated motherfucker" or "I'm a word magician and I will lyrically trip you out".

I know Buck 65 because he's from the maritimes. Other than that I have heard some avant garde stuff on Brave New Waves radio. Asian Dub Foundation is allright but politics aren't my thing. That's the extent of my knowledge.

For other genres I like: Hella, Six Finger Satellite, Chinese Stars, SIANspheric and a ton of other weird shit. I'm not afraid of listening to challenging music.

So help me out?

[S. Earl]

Man, my knowledge is not nearly what it was. Since he announced a tour today I'll tell you check out Aesop Rock, anything he has ever released. Great production and great lyricism without going too far in either the preachy or shocking for the sake of being shocking direction.

I'm sure more will come to me.

[defjuan]

Although mainstream, I would not discount the first albums from NaS and Jay-Z. When those guys were young and hungry, they were as good as it gets. For something more contemporary and kinda trippy, check out Madvillain. If you want the Beatles (as far as innovation goes) of hip-hop with a strong social voice, Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to hold us back. And in honor of MCA, the Beastie Boys are timeless. As you can tell, I tend to lean towards the older stuff. Please don't let what you hear on the radio color your perception of hip hop.

[The Questyen]

You really can't go wrong with The Roots, Talib Kweli, Mos Def or Pharoahe Monch. Those all fit in to the type of hip-hop you're talking about.

[valance_the_hunter]

Too Short is inspirational…especially if you find playing bitches out and pimp slapping hoes intimidating.

[lugaru]

I'm gonna kick my contributions off with some Mexican hip-hop. Both these bands really dont have much in the way of posturing or fiction... their stuff works on a conceptual, political and poetic level.

Control Machete Originally produced by the same guy who did Cypress Hill, they are kind of all over the map but very philosophical.

Starting with Si Señor, which is cliche (it is in a bunch of soundtracks) but that base is... wow.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tt1IF9QOIZw&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Tt1IF9QOIZw&rel=1</a>    

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Utx1lrLPdKY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Utx1lrLPdKY&rel=1</a>


MOLOTOV. Kind of a joke band, at least they make a lot of jokes. Not very subtle, but a good mix of parody, genre bending and competent rap.

http://youtu.be/_zvCUPOkoWY

[lugaru]

"I'm a word magician and I will lyrically trip you out".

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sJ7w-z4BvMo&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/sJ7w-z4BvMo&rel=1</a>

[Tim H]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sJ7w-z4BvMo&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/sJ7w-z4BvMo&rel=1</a>

the first hip-hop artist on Epitaph Records

[Tim H]

Most of the stuff that I like is politically motivated so I'm not going to be a big help but a few of my favorites are

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2ffxUT7Puf0&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/2ffxUT7Puf0&rel=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/OQEMLPkilyI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/OQEMLPkilyI&rel=1</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZiQoVv0FSKQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZiQoVv0FSKQ&rel=1</a>

[ThePatheticClub]

Great stuff! You even jogged my memory. A few of these names I knew.

[defjuan]

You really can't go wrong with The Roots, Talib Kweli, Mos Def or Pharoahe Monch. Those all fit in to the type of hip-hop you're talking about.

I'm embarrassed for forgetting to mention this whole clique. They all have impeccable discographies.

[Tempo House]

I am not sure if it's really uplifting but Kid Cudi's "Man on the Moon II: The Legend of Mr Rager" completely floored me and opened my eyes to the possibilities of hip hop/rap.  I don't know how it is received in the hip hop world, but for this outsider it was pure gold, stunningly good.

[Wormworth]

For a weird, trippy hip hop experience, try Clouddead and Doseone. It might be very energizing or annoying for you.

"The Cold Vein" from Cannibal Ox and "6 Feet Underground" and "The Pick, Sickle and the Shovel" from Gravediggaz are also powerful albums. The lyrics of the latter group are more caricaturistic Wu-Tang stuff with violence, crime and horror, though.

Roots Manuva does some interesting stuff. Also if you have the chance, check out Ceebrolistics - a brilliant Finnish rap group, more on the dubby, electronic side.

[Sean M.]

Pretty much anything from El-P (Fantastic Damage/ I'll Sleep when you're dead/ Cancer 4 Cure (out 5/22)) and Aesop Rock (None Shall Pass) as both are hyper-dense lyrical ninjas with a bit of a sci-fi/ political flavor over dystopian fractured beats. For a more urban political sound (with mad beats by Just Blaze), try Saigon's Greatest Story Never Told (my album of last year). It avoids the usual rap cliches and isn't all about how big his car/house/bank account/amount of champagne consumed etc. And if you want to take it old-school Public Enemy 'It takes a nation of millions to hold us back' & 'Fear of a Black Planet' and Beastie Boys' 'Paul's Boutique are indispensable.

[Kenney]

There are a lot of groups I instantly want to recommend, but to fit your criteria you will have a lot of luck with Jurassic 5 and The Roots. Those two are the definition of "grown ass man" hiphop.

If you want to just listen to something trippy and challenging, Edan is the man you need to seek out. Ghostface is also pretty challenging, but the themes are not ones you will be interested in going by your post.

[lugaru]

Yeah, personally Gravediggaz is one of my alltime favorites, they where self aware of the "fantasy" element of hip hop... in other words at least people are supposed to understand their violence is ironic. I love SOME songs by immortal technique but he buys his own hype too much... "yes Techy, I'm sure you did shoot a dozen CIA agents before your rap show, but you need to put away your toy guns now and go to bed". I have a review of 3rd world which is a very solid album.

http://www.theconnoisseurs.com/index.php/bemerry1/music1/831-immortal-technique

Now through Sage Francis I found AntIcon and through them I found DoseOne who is insane and insanely prolific. If you want a rap voice that stands out instantly, and who has insanely dense challenging lyrics, he is the one. He is even more surreal than Aesop (who I really like) and when he hits his flow he is unique. Bands: Subtle, Themselves, 13 and God, Deep Puddle Dynamics, etc.

Midas Gutz: probably one of the easiest songs to take in of theirs, it is about a contest where guys prove how tough they are by slicing their stomachs open in front of a group of judges. It is a metaphor for tough guy rap posturing. All the voices on that track are him.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vEpqjBoIhxg&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vEpqjBoIhxg&rel=1</a>

Swan Meat: an earlier track.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mOEE_Yc6zZQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/mOEE_Yc6zZQ&rel=1</a>

New favorite subject... gonna check back a lot because I've been looking for grown ass rap, mostly surreal rap.

You really can't go wrong with The Roots, Talib Kweli, Mos Def or Pharoahe Monch. Those all fit in to the type of hip-hop you're talking about.

Just started getting into them... I'm thrilled, talk about good complex stuff.

[slurmo]

Check out Dan Le Sac vs Scroobius Pip they have two albums together. It's UK hip hop.

Good to see Lugaru still championing Control Machete (a personal fave)

Props for the Immortal Technique shout too.

[barrow]

But I also want something lyrically interesting and possibly dealing with literary themes or uplifting motivating subjects. You know, in the vein of "I can make a difference and make my dreams come true cause I'm a motivated motherfucker"

The first act that comes to mind that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Dead Prez.  Very much in the same vein as Immortal Technique, they're politically charged, but not nearly as misogynistic...and annoying like Immortal is.   
You'd want to start with their 'Let's Get Free' album.  You may have heard the song 'Hip-Hop' before, it has a very recognizable beat.

Since this thread is really all about backpacker rap, we should include someone who you could consider a founder, Kool Keith.  He's probably influenced everyone we have talked about in this thread from his days in the Ultramagnetic MC's, to Dr. Octagon, to the ultra-sexual rap.  'Dr. Octagonecologyst' is the classic album to check out.

Another one I haven't seen mentioned who is a personal favorite of mine is MF DOOM.  Doom has a great backstory.  Started out in a group called KDM and was featured on a 3rd Bass track.  At this point he's rapping under the name Zev Love X.  His brother gets hit by a car and dies, causing Zev to disappear from the rap scene.  About 4 or so years later someone starts showing up to open mics and MC battles wearing a DOCTOR DOOM mask and KILLS IT, nobody knows who he is.  MF DOOM is born.  His output has been pretty prolific.  Putting out records under several aliases.  My personal fave is 'Vaudeville Villain', he put that out under the name Viktor Vaughn.

While talking underground hiphop I need to shout out a fellow Boston native ESOTERIC.  Like a lot of hip-hop artists, he's a fan of comic book characters and it always shows up in his music:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cB_WpjIz8rQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/cB_WpjIz8rQ&rel=1</a>

[slurmo]

  'Dr. Octagonecologyst' is the classic album to check out.

  Earth People!

[S. Earl]

For a weird, trippy hip hop experience, try Clouddead and Doseone. It might be very energizing or annoying for you.

"The Cold Vein" from Cannibal Ox and "6 Feet Underground" and "The Pick, Sickle and the Shovel" from Gravediggaz are also powerful albums. The lyrics of the latter group are more caricaturistic Wu-Tang stuff with violence, crime and horror, though.

I'll second these. Anything Doseone has done is worth checking out. Subtle was a group that put out 3 MASTERFUL records.

Can OX was amazing. All early Def Jux artists were amazing. Mind blowing turn of the century stuff. The only thing I'm bummed I missed about not going to Cochella was missing CoFlo