More SGM: "Why Are We Slower?"

[David]

Murphy asks the question I've been pondering for YEARS:

About a month ago I finally got to meet an art hero of mine, Klaus Janson, a well known pro who's been in the industry for over 30 years. A mutual friend introduced us, and we hit it off right away. The group of us went through the Village hitting pub after pub, and soon I was drunk enough to ask Klaus something that had been bugging me.

I asked him if modern comic artists are, on average, slower than we used to be. He said yes, and I agreed.

From the Golden Age until the 80s, pencillers were generally expected to turn in at least two pages a day, while an inker was expected to turn in around 3-4. There were a handful of exceptions, I'm sure, but most of the artists could pump out pages like human printing presses. In the current comic industry, it's completely reversed: while a handful of artists can still hit this speed, the vast majority can't. Pencillers today struggle to produce a page-per-day, while inkers (those who still ink with ink) are hitting around 2.

So what happened? I've talked to a number of artists and a few comic reporters about this, and they came up with a lot of great points that I'd never considered. With their help I was able to construct a loose time line the helps explain what I think happened: artists are slower because the industry has allowed it.

Read the rest of the blog post here.

[Lawrence]

That whole interview/ blog post made me like Murphy even more. I listened to an Ifanboy podcast with him a while ago and afterwards was a big fan of his. The guy is very honest.

"But what we shouldn't respect is lazy. A lot of times I'll hear artists complaining about deadlines, and how the publisher needs to respect his meticulous working process. And that argument is completely valid-- assuming that their art is meticulous, well crafted and carefully considered. Which, often times, it isn't. Lucky, we now inhabit an industry more tolerant of lazy, it seems."

I think that is a really good quote. I respect and admire people who are avidly not lazy.

I would have to say that the number one reason artists are slower today is due to distractions.

[Jon O]

Is comic art in general that much more detailed than years prior?  Sure there are some guys like the ones he mentioned, but if I'm looking big picture, I'm not sure I see an across the board raising of artistic fidelity.  I do of course cherry pick from the past where as I'm exposed to everything coming out at present.

[Wood]

I've had the conversation with artists over the years, and I know Mike Norton completely agreed with me when I asserted that artists are expected to be more detailed these days.  Now that said, I'm not sure that explains the entirety of what's going on. For every John Byrne page with no backgrounds that used to be considered top notch, there are plenty of modern pages being produced with little background detail or (even worse IMHO), photoshopped modeling as backgrounds.

[PozrDu]

What about the studio environment?

In the old days weren't all the the artists all in the same place (NYC),
showing up to work in a bullpen where the writers & other artists could help out,
make suggestions, and/or encourage/inspire growth & productivity or overtime?
(Or rag on them if they fall behind?)

Now doesn't everybody pretty much work from home w/
the only sense of one's relative progress is by an e-mail from
only his or her project's collaborators?

Isn't that regular drive of friendly & personal competition gone?

[legion of daves]

i think working at home with twitter/netflix/tv/video games available is really detrimental to productivity for a lot of people.  i also think the con going is a valid point.  look at someone like chris samnee, works in a studio and for the most part stays off twitter, and has also recently be cancelling con appearances because of his work load.  it takes a level of focus and willpower to actually make those moves, but it seems to be beneficial.  

[JimN]

Is comic art in general that much more detailed than years prior?

I'd say no. I think that's a myth.

Some comics are more detailed than some comics were in the past but I don't think there's a greater level of detail overall (or, for that matter, a superior level of overall craft). However, there may be a greater reliance on reference material and the time it takes to create and/or compile that material could definitely have an impact on productivity.

[Wood]

This conversation reminds me of an AWESOME interview our buddies Swain, Dwight and Adrian did on Sidebar with Arthur Adam this week.

http://www.sidebarnation.com/my_weblog/2012/06/podcast-episode-190-arthur-adams.html

Art was a righteously cool dude and he is VERY candid about his inability to work fast, and chronic problems with deadlines.

During the conversation, he relayed a story he heard about the old Marvel Bullpen days when Joe Simon apparently saw Jack (Kirby) erasing something to re-draw it.  Simon yelled across the room, "What are you doing Jack? They pay us to use the pencils, not the erasers!"

 

[mguy1977]

Over the last thirty years since I started reading, the artists & sometimes even the writers are slower than their predecessors.    Some have legitimate reasons, others have work concerns in addition to being a writer or artist, con-related reasons, real family/medical/personal reasons or at the bottom of the barrel, being a lazy ass BSer.  Money talks & BS walks, it is the standard to live by.  My money can support a new indie (or mainstream) book goodbye Powers hello Saga, Fatale, Atomic Robo, etc...

Matthew

[lugaru]

Honestly I tend to associate "slow" with lasting works (for example european books) and fast with pulp (which I love old comics but you know what I mean).

In Japan they have met a compromise using a studio system, with mixed results.

[BadDeacon]

I think teh internets, email, twitter, ie., distractions are generally responsible for a lot of slowness amongst all professionals, not just illustrators.

I mean, I'm a professional, and I'm at work right now. And I'm writing this.

Really interesting article!

[Dean S.]

I really enjoyed the posting by Sean when I read it yesterday.  But....I like him a lot generally.  Nice guy, funny, incredibly talented, good work ethic, works on comics I want to read, speaks his mind, etc.  What's not to like?

It seems to me that comics today are more detailed, but that could just be my perception.  My only frustration with "today's artists" is that it seems like there are a lot of lesser talents copying the mega-talents and I'd rather see them stick to basics until they have it mastered.  But, I'm sure that happened in the old days too.

As for distractions....I can't imagine that working at home is conducive to maximum work output.  But, I'm easily distracted, so I could just be projecting my own failings onto artists...

The slowness of artists does bug me.  It seems like it's the main reason that we get so many art changes on comics and I hate art changes.  There are a ton of examples of series I started reading because I liked the artist....then the artist changes and I don't like it as much.  

[JimN]

I really enjoyed the posting by Sean when I read it yesterday.  But....I like him a lot generally.  Nice guy, funny, incredibly talented, good work ethic, works on comics I want to read, speaks his mind, etc.  What's not to like?

It seems to me that comics today are more detailed, but that could just be my perception.  My only frustration with "today's artists" is that it seems like there are a lot of lesser talents copying the mega-talents and I'd rather see them stick to basics until they have it mastered.  But, I'm sure that happened in the old days too.

As for distractions....I can't imagine that working at home is conducive to maximum work output.  But, I'm easily distracted, so I could just be projecting my own failings onto artists...

The slowness of artists does bug me.  It seems like it's the main reason that we get so many art changes on comics and I hate art changes.  There are a ton of examples of series I started reading because I liked the artist....then the artist changes and I don't like it as much.

On the other hand, if you liked the artist, you may have liked his work because he took the time to do it a certain way and if he did it faster, you may not have liked it.

[evaD]

That's an interesting article, David. I've always come down on the side of get it done in the timeframe allotted, do it the best you can in the time you have and move on. I feel that missing a deadline is unprofessional. That said, I have softened on that since I started creating my own comics. My own style is generally predicated on the idea that I have limited time to work each day, so speed is important - but there are side effects to that. I can pencil a page in an hour, sometimes less. I can ink a page in about two hours. Here's the catch: I very rarely use any kind of reference, rulers are rare, and I don't use an eraser. The net result is that the pictures look like I penciled them in an hour, inked them at about the same pace, and didn't use references, rulers or an eraser. Last year when I did Saucy Jesus, those pages were inked and penciled in an hour. I love that immediacy and energy. I think it's missing from many of the big 2 books and I think it has a lot to do with my lack of excitement for much of what is coming from them.

[Dean S.]

On the other hand, if you liked the artist, you may have liked his work because he took the time to do it a certain way and if he did it faster, you may not have liked it.

Oh...that's a completely fair point.  I think some of it is down to difference between Big 2 and "other".  For whatever reason, I *feel* like Marvel and DC have an obligation to keep Iron Man and Flash coming out every 4 weeks....and I get kinda pissy about the compromises they make to keep it on schedule.  On the other hand, I don't really mind if a Vertigo or Image title has some delays (as long as the delay isn't so severe that I lose the story).

And...the other thing is that as soon as these series are published, it kinda stops mattering how long they took to come out.  They they just exist and are judged based on the merits without handicapping for release schedule.  Like, if I look at an old series like Longshot, today I don't give Art Adams demerits for the delays in that miniseries even though the delays irritated me at the time.

[Jon O]

I think there's something to the studio thing too. I'm constantly ribbing Timothy about his speed, and he often critiques my own shortcomings in the craft.

I'm not sure that comics should ever be late. Continuing series should be handled by teams that can handle that pace. Save your slow guys for events and minis where you can backlog everything until it's ready to come out. Personally I have about two months of Awful Lot back logged in case there ever was a problem in my output. There are literally hundreds of unused Public Educations lying around. As a comic artist I feel there is an obligation to make your deadlines. Especially with serialized narratives.

[TimothyObriant]

I wonder how the dwindling direct market and the need to trades has to do with the output of today's comics.  Back in the day comics were on the news stand one week and gone the next, today they are meant to sit in Barnes & Noble until the end of time.  The whole mind set has changed. 

I know for myself I have to sit with a piece for awhile to really stretch myself artistically.   

[GrimlocksPS]

The mindset has changed. Before the artists were pumping out pages to make money. The page rates were abysmal and it was a factory mentality. Kirby would be at his table for what 18 hours a day?

[PozrDu]

It used to be that the big two would keep "inventory" issues of material
stashed away or do reprints in case a creative team fell behind.
Lateness happened, but titles still came out on schedule.

With the Big 2 now being big media producers & incubators
I'm surprised they haven't adopted a more television-style production model
for their comics production.  You don't hear, "Sorry, we didn't air anything
on this channel in the time slot of this week's episode
because the director got sick."

Have an arc or two in the can before soliciting.
If you are Time Warner or Disney, you have standards & resources.

Why not have two tag teaming creative teams on major titles?
Team A has the #1 arc, carrying the characters & plot from A to B.
Team B (knowing what plot point B is) works at the same time as Team A
so arc #2 is done before arc #1 finishes.
While Team B is working on arc #2, they keep Team A up on
how character & point B gets to C in arc #2.
While arc #2 is on, Team A puts arc #3 in the can.
Repeat.

[JimN]

It used to be that the big two would keep "inventory" issues of material
stashed away or do reprints in case a creative team fell behind.
Lateness happened, but titles still came out on schedule.

With the Big 2 now being big media producers & incubators
I'm surprised they haven't adopted a more television-style production model
for their comics production.  You don't hear, "Sorry, we didn't air anything
on this channel in the time slot of this week's episode
because the director got sick."

Have an arc or two in the can before soliciting.
If you are Time Warner or Disney, you have standards & resources.

Why not have two tag teaming creative teams on major titles?
Team A has the #1 arc, carrying the characters & plot from A to B.
Team B (knowing what plot point B is) works at the same time as Team A
so arc #2 is done before arc #1 finishes.
While Team B is working on arc #2, they keep Team A up on
how character & point B gets to C in arc #2.
While arc #2 is on, Team A puts arc #3 in the can.
Repeat.

Weren't they doing something like that on Spider-man for a while?