11 O'Clock Comics Episode 29

[Matt Kramer]

Can someone PM me here or DM me on twitter explaining who the "big return" was in the Guardian special?  I'm assuming it's the person Guardian saw in the tank but as a relative DC n00b, and never reading the group of books that guy is likely from I'd definitely like to know the significance

The person in the tank was

Tellus from the Legion of Super Heroes

, a character who hasn't been seen in almost 20 years.

[VinceB]

The person in the tank was

Tellus from the Legion of Super Heroes

, a character who hasn't been seen in almost 20 years.

His presence raises a lot of questions, doesn't it?

1. How the hell did Cadmus get their hands on a being from the 30th century?
2. Was he a product of the Cadmus labs? Did they seed the Legion with beings produced by their DNA experiments?
3. Or the reverse: are the Cadmus DNAliens based in part on 30th century DNA?
4. If he still had his Legion ring, why did he allow himself to remain a prisoner?

Whatever the case, time travel has got to be involved somewhere along the chain, right? 

[Matt Kramer]

His presence raises a lot of questions, doesn't it?

1. How the hell did Cadmus get their hands on a being from the 30th century?
2. Was he a product of the Cadmus labs? Did they seed the Legion with beings produced by their DNA experiments?
3. Or the reverse: are the Cadmus DNAliens based in part on 30th century DNA?
4. If he still had his Legion ring, why did he allow himself to remain a prisoner?

Whatever the case, time travel has got to be involved somewhere along the chain, right? 

Some remarks:

1.  We know from Legion of Three Worlds, that several Legionnaires had been sent into the past to search for a missing Legionnaire.  Is it Tellus that they're looking for?
2.  Knowing a bit about Tellus' history, he probably didn't free himself because if he did, he'd die as he can only live in a methane-based environment without his fishbowl helmet.
3.  Who are the Science Police he's referring to?  The ones who have been appearing in Action Comics lately or the ones from the 31st Century?
4.  It would be really cool if the DNAliens were based on his DNA.  That would explain some of the "monster" clones that the Guardian saw.  Maybe they're mash-ups of Harper and Tellus DNA.

There's a lot of stuff brewing here and I think it's awesome!   

[drake_dangerz]

Just listening to it right now!!  I was reading the comic shots article right when Chris went through the drink roll call!  Good stuff.  You guys are making my Friday morning work day so much better

[Scott C.]

Just picked up a bunch of Superman books at lunch.  Looking forward to reading Robinson's work tonight.

Tellus

showing up is what convinced me to check it out.

[JimN]

I agree with this. I don't know what evidence there is that any artist, save for maybe Alex Ross, materially alters the sales of a book. The FF example is a great one. Millar - in his usual self confident manner [hey, he's a fellow Scotsman so I can't front] - said he was going onto FF to restore it to top 10 book status. Now, to be fair, i don't know the last time FF was a top 10 book, it's been ages. Either way, despite his overtures, and a clear cut cache among comics readers, the book isn't spiking in sales.

I think an artist is probably still capable of materially altering the sales of a book, although I don't know if it's substantial enough to cause a serious jump in numbers. I know that Hitch's presence on FF altered sales of the book for me: I took a look at his work on the book and put it back on the shelf. It just wasn't for me.

Seriously, if you put Art Adams on FF on a regular basis, I'm betting that would cause a concrete jump in sales (assuming the writing was any good).

Maybe I'm wrong but the art in comics influences what I buy to a substantial degree. I know I'm not the only comics consumer who feels that way so it's hard for me to believe an artist can't impact sales on a book. However, maybe I'm just too biased to see it any other way.

Jim

[David]

I know that Hitch's presence on FF altered sales of the book for me: I took a look at his work on the book and put it back on the shelf. It just wasn't for me.

Karma.

[evaD]

Just listening to the show, now. Prices spiking to $3.99 has me less then excited. I'll be cutting back at least. I'm just not sure I see the value in buying monthly titles for that much. Especially with the way the economy is turning. I think I may switch to the occasional trade. There's plenty of free stuff on the internet.

[Dave A]

Anthologies: These can sell if they're done the right way, i.e. in a way they haven't been done for a really long time. Put 2 or 3 recurring characters into one book with continuing stories, and make those stories matter. I am not going to consistently buy a book that's just kinda about "Gotham", in which one month I'm getting a Nightwing story, a Simon Dark story, and an Oracle story, and then the next month I get a Robin story, a Huntress story, and a Commissioner Gordon story. Pick a few characters and stick with them with ongoing stories. And make sure the stories are big... not just some 8-pager in which rookie writer/artist combo X answers the burning question of what Renee Montoya thinks about while she's eating breakfast... big stories, big excitement, consequences, and top talent.

Value vs. price hikes: I'm not against price hikes in the books... but I do want commensurate value. I'm a big proponent for going back to the 64 page Golden Age format, for which I would gladly pay $5-6 per. One thing I'm surprised publishers haven't figured out is that, with so many complaints about how quickly a comic read is these days, publishing text pieces like in the Golden Age books is a cheap way to provide a lot of extra content and make people feel like they can take their time with a book. There are quite a few comics writers out there who are also publishing prose work (Greg Rucka, Peter David, Greg Hurwitz, Warren Ellis, to name just a very few). Why not tap some of these talents for 3-5 pages of prose to put into some of your comics and beef up the page count/value? They could be short stories or ongoing chapters in a novel, related to the book in question or an original concept, whatever... and then you could collect the pieces into a full book when it's finished. I know there are those comics readers who will skip over prose, but if you put it in there and make it good, a lot of people will read it and rave about it, and it might even become a draw for non-comics readers (like say if you put an original Stephen King short story in with the Dark Tower adaptations). For years comics publishers have been slashing page counts to keep the price down for whiny fans, and it's fucked the medium straight into the direct market and now slowly towards extinction. Beef up the pages, charge enough so that it's worth it for 7-11 to spring for the shelf space again, and make it worth people's time to pay that much money. It ain't rocket science, folks....

[Matthew S.]

I really don't think lowering the price will get people to buy more. It sounds like that would work but in practice it wouldnt work. People would just be happy to spend less for the same amount of stuff. For any questions regarding pricing of comics and business aspects, I direct you the CGS Jim Lee interview where he shoots down all the dumb paper arguments that forum people always make.

http://www.comicgeekspeak.com/episodes/comic_geek_speak-344.php

[PJConrad]

Hey, guys. Hope all is well.
I am just getting into this week's episode, but I am enjoying it so far.

QUESTION for the FORUM time:

Do you see DC bringing back their anthologies rather than putting out new solo books?

I have a theory:

ADVENTURE COMICS: Becomes the playground for Superman related Characters: Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen, The Guardian, Krypto, Superboy (be it a [hopefully] returning Connor Kent or even Superboy Emo...er...Prime)

DETECTIVE COMICS: Batman universe, but it will HAVE to have a main Batman story in each issue. Birds of Pray, Robin, Nightwing, and Catwom.

SHOWCASE: JLA-universe, and in my opinion the BEST place to put an Aquaman solo story perhaps written again by Peter David.

TALES OF THE EXPECTED: This might the hardest to sell over the long haul, but you could find The Spectre, Demon, maybe even the New Gods (depending on what happens to them)

Anyway, if you guys have talked about this in the forum, forgive my lateness.

Hope y'all are good!

Stay Classy.

Jonathan

[Matthew S.]

Also, I doubt any DC/Marvel anthology would sell more than 30000 copies. When has it been more successful than that? Plus why would top creators contribute to those when they could be on their own book and collect royalties split among fewer people.

[David]

Why would the anthology be collected?  I would think they'd break up the different serials, collecting and putting them in their own books.  Like Marvel did with Omega Flight.  The serial that ran in Marvel Comics Presents was collected and published in one softcover.

[Steve Raker]

This week's episode is proof positive that DC needs to put out an updated Who's Who. 

...as long as they get the printing right this time... remember how wonky the colors were, muddy-ing the pictures the first time around?  Between that and the smaller figures, these books paled in comparison to the OHotMU's, imo.

Regarding circulation not increasing if prices were lowered, how many of us/you would love to take risks and try out more books or buy a few more but the primary, and sometimes only reason is the price/tab?  We'd all likely still spend the same amount a month on our books, but be getting a few more for our money.  Hell, back in the early '80's before the horrific jump in price to .75 (which made me cut way down on my books), for a year or so I tried to buy every Marvel and every DC book to try 'em all out and see what would stick. 

To many, including myself, lower prices means being able to buy more books for the same amount.  Like Wood said, how the market forces operate depends on the item/product/commodity...  comics are something we'd all like to have/get/aquire more of...  the demand is there, I often think the only obstacle is the price.

Regarding Millar/Hitch FF, they still might get good collection sales.  Given being burned by this creative team in the past with last issue delays, why not wait for the work to get finished/collected?  And Millar touted how the book would almost read as out of continuity, not reflecting anything going on the regular Marvel U.  So what's the rush to pick up any singles?

[Dom Sutton]

I agree with Wood about FC: Submit. I enjoyed it quite a bit - the blackest comic I've read since I ploughed my way through Essential Power Man Volume One. SWEET CHRISTMAS!

[deadcowaroma]

I really don't think lowering the price will get people to buy more. It sounds like that would work but in practice it wouldnt work. People would just be happy to spend less for the same amount of stuff. For any questions regarding pricing of comics and business aspects, I direct you the CGS Jim Lee interview where he shoots down all the dumb paper arguments that forum people always make.

http://www.comicgeekspeak.com/episodes/comic_geek_speak-344.php

Awesome! I love Wood's points too. It drives me when people think they know more than the comic publishers do on how to price books: "they should price the book at 10 cents and then sell a gajillion books and make more money than they do now". No sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Next week Wood can you address why 2 different trades with the same number of pages have different prices! 

[VinceB]

It drives me when people think they know more than the comic publishers do on how to price books: "they should price the book at 10 cents and then sell a gajillion books and make more money than they do now". No sorry, it doesn't work that way.

You know, we "lower the prices and people will buy more" proponents aren't pulling the idea out of our asses. Take a look around on the forums and at your LCS and take note of the number of people that refuse to buy books -- even ones as rock frickin' solid as X-Men/Spider-Man -- because of the PRICE. Lowering prices may not be a cure-all for what ails the industry but, in combination with other short- and long-term fixes, I'm pretty confident it can't do anything but help. There is a ceiling to how much people will pay for a floppy and I do believe we're reaching it.

Besides, how much of the population of that insular island of buyers we like to call the comic book industry would NOT add a few more titles to their pull lists if prices changed for the better? If you've set a monthly budget for yourself and suddenly that budget allows you to buy more comics, you're not going to take advantage of that fact? Hell, why does the Wild Pig sale send guys into convulsions? Because they can BUY MORE COMICS at drastically reduced rates! Based on what I've seen of their buying habits, I'm betting the majority of comic buyers when given the opportunity would in fact buy MORE comics. It's what we do.

[AZN_FIST]

Boy this episode lived up like a solid good read, good to hear Billy Idol, the woo-hoo and Obama mention to kickstart the show.

Man I'm glad to see a cancellation of two bat-books, and I ain't down for an anthology. Unless there was some sort of anniversary collection, why do it? If that's gonna be done, do it and make it cheap for the newbie, market it outside of the lcs and use it as a good intro to dc books. As for me, I'd rather support on the Image anthology books, they're always worth the buy.

It drives me when people think they know more than the comic publishers do on how to price books: "they should price the book at 10 cents and then sell a gajillion books and make more money than they do now". No sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Agreed, as I've learned, there's more to the economics and things that contribute to why the prices are what they seem to be. I really enjoyed the shit out of the comparisons that Wood made with comic publications to magazines and music, etc. Wood always brings up THE HEAAT!

Regarding Millar/Hitch FF, they still might get good collection sales.  Given being burned by this creative team in the past with last issue delays, why not wait for the work to get finished/collected?  And Millar touted how the book would almost read as out of continuity, not reflecting anything going on the regular Marvel U.  So what's the rush to pick up any singles?

I still wonder why that shit is still around. I remember seeing it on the spinner rack at a bookstore, and flipped for ten seconds. That's all the value I see for the remainder of that run.

I ain't worried for the 3.99 anymore, Dark Horse just made for a new home...and cutting down on buying does help!

Chris- thaaaankyew for mentioning Watching the Watchmen, I saw that awesome smorgashboard of goodness last Sunday during a Dave Gibbons interview/signing, and it's trooth that it's a quintessential to Watchmen. I saw some of those rough layouts, and it amazed me so much.

[AZN_FIST]

Y Based on what I've seen of their buying habits, I'm betting the majority of comic buyers when given the opportunity would in fact buy MORE comics. It's what we do.

I'd believe you, but I'm a pretty damn nitpicky buyer myself.

And Johns again? ayyy It's like a stomach cramp. lol

[thefreakytiki]

Awesome! I love Wood's points too. It drives me when people think they know more than the comic publishers do on how to price books: "they should price the book at 10 cents and then sell a gajillion books and make more money than they do now". No sorry, it doesn't work that way.
 

So let me get this straight...

Every time I hear that people find themselves spending MORE through discount online services, your telling me that they are lying.

Every time that I hear people say they can't get out of discount warehouses like Costco or Sam's Club for under $200, they are mistaken?

Every time I hear reports about Wal Mart making profits because of their low prices while every other retail store is in the shitter, they are lying too.

Your right when the products we want are available at a lower price, we won't over indulge at all.


the Tiki


PS.  I apologize for the snarkiness.  I do love you.