$3.99 price point...will WE show Marvel it's a bad idea?

[Papercut]

Ahh - thanks for pointing that out. All the number crunching impaired my reading ability.

Shut up, David.


EDIT: Oh, and thanks to Alec and Chad for the kind words.

[AZN_FIST]

Quite frankly, Marvel doesn't need us to buy their books.

Yes, I said it. Marvel doesn't need us to buy their books.

We will. Maybe not Wood, or Bob, or anyone else jumping on the boycott, but there will be enough buyers to continue making money for Marvel.


However, the real issue, and this is where you will need to truly make a sacrifice greater than waiting a year to find books in discount bins that Marvel's already received their cut from (ie; the comic shop has bought them from Diamond, Diamond's passed that cash onto Marvel), is to stop buying anything at all related to the Marvel name for at least a period of two years.

Why two years? Because licensing works with such a large buffer that to really see the impact, the items that need to be boycotted will be the ones on the shelves now and reaching the shelves in the next 18 months.

Quite frankly, the comic book buying community wouldn't make that much of a dent even if they could pull this off. Even if all of the people listening to podcasts on the subject, or those who have a pull list somewhere, or the casual and informed fan were to stop buying anything Marvel related, the rest of the public would still keep buying lunch boxes, backpacks, notebooks, toys, etc...

We are fans. Fanatics if you don't want to shorten the word. We are the outliers, the fringe of the community. We, for the most part, don't matter. We really wish we did, we talk like we do, we feel overjoyed by comics reaching the mainstream and disheartened when they aren't true to the vision, but, we are not the majority.

I love the enthusiasm. I really, really do. But it's misplaced. If you really want to make a difference, start buying multiple copies of great indie books like The Contingent and Fear Agent and start giving them away to everyone. Leave them in Dentist's and Doctor's offices, leave them on subways and train stations, and make sure they are prominently displayed in libraries and in the hands of teachers. Make these books matter and the big companies will start to have competition...

Capitalism at work...competition on the not-so-free market...now, that's power...

Fantastic thread Wood, and it's been fascinating to read the replies.

THANK you gawainn, I dunno what gave you the idea but much kudos and karma.

I had a similar thought that even if we as consumers and lovers of the medium were to suddenly ditch, Marvel's still got their film properties to milk them in one form or another, no? And those pre-orders have another reason, because there are those who will put up and shell out their cash for ad-plagued monthlies. But let's not all make Marvel the be-all-end-all cause, because DC's not far from it either. I'm not debating on the quality of the books, but as it's been said, raising the price at a time when the economy's dipped is a major issue, and I think it'll take more than just solutions being said here on a forum or on a podcast.

On the merch, let's just say the comic division ended tomorrow. What would Marvel do? They still have their film franchise, and merchandising to make money from. Now I'm not sure if these profits directly go back to the big M, but seriously? The only solution for my money is a drastic abstinence to Marvel books...and I mean NOW.

Me? Other than some Dark Horse love, I've gone cold turkey on comics and will probably do so in the next while.

[Steve Raker]

....I'm not buying any 22-page 3.99 cover price books....  well, except for New Avengers (but I'll be buying through DCBS, so it's just a one book, .50 price increase for me.....  and I'm dropping two DC titles to make up for it ).  As always, I'm both part of the solution and the problem

[AZN_FIST]

....I'm not buying any 22-page 3.99 cover price books....  well, except for New Avengers (but I'll be buying through DCBS, so it's just a one book, .50 price increase for me.....  and I'm dropping two DC titles to make up for it ).  As always, I'm both part of the solution and the problem

my thoughts exactly.

Seriously tho, I thought weeks ago I'd feel bad for the cold turkey decision but I've yet to get excited by something.

[evaD]

Lost in this entire Cover Price Debate is another query...how much will this price increase impact brick&mortar Comic Shops?

If people have fixed budgets for buying their comics in a LCS, will the higher prices turn them even more towards online services?

If their favorite titles are raised to $4 and it turns them off of those titles, how many will actually spend that money on other $3 comics or trades in the store? What if it turns them off of comics altogether (as previous mentioned in this thread)?

I can't speak for anyone else but my intention is to spend on the independents and maybe DC (if they don't raise their prices). I remember when an independent book cost more then Marvel or DC. To be honest, that's one of the reasons I never bought a ton of independent books in the 80's and 90's. I can understand why someone doing it on their own would need to charge more, but I don't get this Marvel thing.

[AZN_FIST]

I can't speak for anyone else but my intention is to spend on the independents and maybe DC (if they don't raise their prices). I remember when an independent book cost more then Marvel or DC. To be honest, that's one of the reasons I never bought a ton of independent books in the 80's and 90's. I can understand why someone doing it on their own would need to charge more, but I don't get this Marvel thing.

really? Independents costing more than the big two? I'm not gonna debate, but how long ago was this out of curiosity?

[Steve Raker]

really? Independents costing more than the big two? I'm not gonna debate, but how long ago was this out of curiosity?

Were not Pacific, Eclipse, First, & Epic Comics all more expensive than Marvel and DC books in the early/mid'80s at the time of the rise and early years of the direct market?  Marvel's direct market only books (KaZar, Moon Knight, etc) were more expensive than their regular books at the time as well.

I remember when Marvel stayed at .60, then later moved to .65, when DC first jumped to .75 back in those days too. I pretty much stopped buying all DC books other than Teen Titans and Infinity Inc at the time in response.

[VinceB]

Were not Pacific, Eclipse, First, & Epic Comics all more expensive than Marvel and DC books in the early/mid'80s at the time of the rise and early years of the direct market?  Marvel's direct market only books (KaZar, Moon Knight, etc) were more expensive than their regular books at the time as well.

Yep. Indies were pretty much always more expensive than their mainstream cousins. Sure, Airboy and Next Wave were the exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, indies were always leading the pack in terms of cost/page.

[Steve Raker]

Yep. Indies were pretty much always more expensive than their mainstream cousins. Sure, Airboy and Next Wave were the exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, indies were always leading the pack in terms of cost/page.

1983: DNAgents #2, $1.50...   Avengers #233, .60

[AZN_FIST]

Wow, so what caused the big two one-upping their indie creators in the price tags then? 

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

How much, if at all, does securing a big name writer or artist effect the rising prices of comics? I've heard people compare the price of a comic 25 years ago to now, factoring in inflation, and it's coo coo. I know that dwindling readership plays a role, but does getting (and keeping) Bendis on a title jack the price up, in the long run? Was Roger Stern Stern paid a comparable amount in the '80s to what Bendis is paid on a title now, or are free agents ruining the game? Anybody have any info? 

[clever_username]

How much, if at all, does securing a big name writer or artist effect the rising prices of comics? I've heard people compare the price of a comic 25 years ago to now, factoring in inflation, and it's coo coo. I know that dwindling readership plays a role, but does getting (and keeping) Bendis on a title jack the price up, in the long run? Was Roger Stern Stern paid a comparable amount in the '80s to what Bendis is paid on a title now, or are free agents ruining the game? Anybody have any info? 

I don't know about individual creators. But Chris has made the point before that it could be the greater number of exclusive contracts. It costs Marvel and DC more to pay their employees because of the benefits included with exclusivity.

[BobBretall]

We will. Maybe not Wood, or Bob, or anyone else jumping on the boycott, but there will be enough buyers to continue making money for Marvel.

Just to be clear, I am not boycotting anything.

I am making a decision to not buy something at a 33% increased price point unless I have a REALLY compelling reason to do so.

I will buy a few $3.99 books, but not many.  If I am on the fence, the higher price will tip me to not buying.

If it is a new project from a creator I am unfamiliar with or not a HUGE fan of, the $3.99 price will prevent me from trying the book out.

This is different from a boycott, which is an act of ceasing all purchases.

[Wood]

Just to be clear, I am not boycotting anything.

I am making a decision to not buy something at a 33% increased price point unless I have a REALLY compelling reason to do so.

I will buy a few $3.99 books, but not many.  If I am on the fence, the higher price will tip me to not buying.

If it is a new project from a creator I am unfamiliar with or not a HUGE fan of, the $3.99 price will prevent me from trying the book out.

This is different from a boycott, which is an act of ceasing all purchases.

Exactly Bob. And gawainn, if you go back and re-read my original post, I'm actually concluding that it WON'T work. That we WON'T do enough to convince Marvel it was a bad idea. All I'm saying is to be intellectually honest. If you are going to bitch about $3.99 comics [which we know a LOT of people will], then don't buy them without any consideration of price when you have the chance. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Chad (Grilled Cheese Sandwich)]

Exactly Bob. And gawainn, if you go back and re-read my original post, I'm actually concluding that it WON'T work. That we WON'T do enough to convince Marvel it was a bad idea. All I'm saying is to be intellectually honest. If you are going to bitch about $3.99 comics [which we know a LOT of people will], then don't buy them without any consideration of price when you have the chance. Put your money where your mouth is.

Wood, first, with all due respect, my post, though it used your name, was not directed only at you. It was for everyone reading, but I used your name because your last paragraph stated simply that you weren't going to buy the $3.99 books, therefore, effectively boycotting the price jump. Bob clarified his position, so I apologize for including him.

However, about your original post, quite frankly, there isn't a conclusion about whether or not it will work. Your primary point is that comics=addiction, comic buyers can therefore be price gouged. We will take the kick in the wallet because we are addicted and if you don't stand up against that, it's the buyer's fault, so they have no basis for complaining. Moreover, your post seemed to be railing against comic fans who say one thing and do the opposite, condemning those you might be trying to appeal to. 

Rather than point out the ineffectual act of not buying certain books, I tried to point out a way that real change could be enacted. There is no way, none, that the comic buying community will stop buying books completely. There is no way (and I wish I was wrong on this, but I know I'm not) that comic fans will ever agree on one topic enough to make a change occur through an act of singular resolve.

To complain about the price of books is understandable. To worry about the health of the industry is also understandable. To outright declare:

I can't stress this enough. If you want to complain about the rising prices of books, but are willing to pay for them anyway, SHUT THE HELL UP. Seriously, I don't want to see rants from people over the next few months saying how "pissed" they are about what Marvel is doing, only to follow that up with something like, "but I couldn't resist buying them anyway." Either buy them and accept the price hike quietly, or complain and put your money where your mouth is.

...is really just creating a preemptive rant against the arguments you foresee happening. This doesn't do any good and just causes derision.

What I propose is that we actually try and talk to someone at Marvel. I don't know anyone myself, but I'm sure someone in the comics community knows who to talk to. One of the podcasts like AC, iFanboy, CGS, or WordBalloon may even have the pull to try and get that person to talk in a recorded interview. If not, one of the news sites could do a write up. Let's find out exactly why they say the price is going up. Let's ask the real tough questions and not sit back letting the decisions be made without at least a bit of transparency. Without the real answers, everything is supposition.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of what you're trying to say. The feeling of paying more in this time is ridiculous. However, how we go about making arguments is just as important as the argument being made.

[Nojfotra (Jonathan D. Gordon)]

What I propose is that we actually try and talk to someone at Marvel. I don't know anyone myself, but I'm sure someone in the comics community knows who to talk to. One of the podcasts like AC, iFanboy, CGS, or WordBalloon may even have the pull to try and get that person to talk in a recorded interview. If not, one of the news sites could do a write up. Let's find out exactly why they say the price is going up. Let's ask the real tough questions and not sit back letting the decisions be made without at least a bit of transparency. Without the real answers, everything is supposition.

I don't know if you heard the Ifanboy interviews with Jim McCann from Marvel, I may be off base, but he seemed to be dismissive and boarderline annoyed by questions from us readers.  And it makes sense. Marvel isn't going to jump to gie one of two answers. Answer A.  The comic Biz is falling apart ,we need more money. or B.  We're greedy and know you'll pay 4$ for 18 pages (X-men Ghost Box)

I actually think a boycott or selective shift from buying everything available from marvel to a select few would do a lot to change things. The direct market isn't healthy. In this economy it won't take much to put the LCS out of business.  If enough LCS go away Comics have to get innovative and find a more viable format to get comics in hand. Even if that is putting spinner racks back in 7-11's

[Chad (Grilled Cheese Sandwich)]

I actually think a boycott or selective shift from buying everything available from marvel to a select few would do a lot to change things. The direct market isn't healthy. In this economy it won't take much to put the LCS out of business.  If enough LCS go away Comics have to get innovative and find a more viable format to get comics in hand. Even if that is putting spinner racks back in 7-11's

The problem with this is the loss of the LCS. How many of the indie books would be picked up in spinner racks at a 7-11? Probably none, or very few. There has to be an answer other than taking things to the extreme first. But to figure out the answers, its imperative to know the right questions and that means getting a lot of information. There's only a few places to get that information. That's all I'm saying.

[Nojfotra (Jonathan D. Gordon)]

The thing is Marvel and Likely DC have never given answers.  They just don't it doesn't matter who sits down with them.
They will stick with the party line ........... Paper costs more money.  The fact is like wood said we are in a deflationary economy. The big two are making record profits on the licensing side. There is no excuse to raise prices at THIS time.
They know that.  I agree it would be great to have educated none ass-kissers like Wood sit down with these guys, but it won't happen.  The guys at marvel and DC are smart. They will pick podcasters who won't hit them hard with these questions or are easilly distracted by some peice of exclusive creative team or character news.

Nobody is going to convince the big 2 that 3.99 isn't smart for the business by talking. That seemed to be Wood's original point. Its true.  Cut the 3.99 books out of your pulls or bendover and take it from the big two and  don't bitch about while its happening.

[Papercut]

The question I've brought up inthe past, that also seems to give credence to Mr. Wachter's comments, is "Why $3.99?"  How much more palatable would $3.50 be? Would it make any difference? 

Who knows, but contrary to what the current exchange rate would indicate, at a personal level, $1 still carries value -- both financially and psychologically speaking.

Sorry -- again, just interjecting.     

[Nojfotra (Jonathan D. Gordon)]

The question I've brought up inthe past, that also seems to give credence to Mr. Wachter's comments, is "Why $3.99?"  How much more palatable would $3.50 be? Would it make any difference? 

Who knows, but contrary to what the current exchange rate would indicate, at a personal level, $1 still carries value -- both financially and psychologically speaking.

Sorry -- again, just interjecting.     

That is what puzzles me most. Ok, we know their crap about needing more money per issue is just that, but lets act as if its the truth.......... Why not 3.25, 3.50 0r 3.75.

I am personally buying into the theory that it is to kill indies.  I think they know most comic readers have a comics budget and will buy their MARVEL/DC books  then with the leftover look into the indies. Nobody buys Blue Beetle or Spidergirl so putting out more Marvel/DC booksdoesn't work to take our excess money. Charge us more for what issues we do buy and gamble that we will keep buying them seems to be the plan, then we will have no money left over for indies.