11 O'Clock Comics Episode 6

[Paul]

I like the way the line goes up the back of the stocking.

I have no idea why Van Halen popped into my head while reading your post, but there it is.

No no no no no, don't take `em off

[Chris]

My new rule is to not read ANY event books the night we record. I always get home from the shop and feel like I need to jump right to those instead of reading the books I normally would first.

It's resulted in me being a touch cranky...

[VinceB]

It's resulted in me being a touch cranky...

I like the initial gut reactions. You can always amend your thoughts later.

It's not crankiness, it's honesty. Who besides Sal would fault you for that?

[Paul]

I'll echo Chris on Firebirds.  It's a great little read.  I picked it up after they showed up in Dynamo 5.

The Dynamo 5 Annual reprints the one story that introduced Captain Dynamo, then it gets into new stuff.

The new storyline in Noble Causes is really good.  Well worth picking up, in fact it convinced me to start reading this book monthly!

[Chris]

I like the initial gut reactions. You can always amend your thoughts later.

It's not crankiness, it's honesty. Who besides Sal would fault you for that?

Oh, I could have been REALLY honest, but I tried to control myself.
I was actually angry after reading SI #3. I felt ripped off and mad at myself for buying it.

[sethhurley]

I love how you guys give a rundown of what you are drinking before the comics talk even begins.

[aSh]

I heard something that I disagree with: "X-Men Legacy is the best X-Book"..... I like Uncanny and Wolverine: First Class better. (but X-Men Legacy is pretty good).... I am an X-Men Shill.

[Equinox]

My new rule is to not read ANY event books the night we record. I always get home from the shop and feel like I need to jump right to those instead of reading the books I normally would first.

It's resulted in me being a touch cranky...

Maybe you need to cut back on the pre-press hype for the event books, rather than the books themselves.  Strip away the preconcieved notions and expectations that the press monkeys stir up and those books might not seem too bad.

Screw it though; I'm taking the first issues of Final Crisis and Secret Invasion to China for some mug shot photos.  That should increase their entertainment value marginally...

[Scott C.]

Phrase I never need to hear again:  Average comic book reader. 

If someone only enjoys superheroes from Marvel or DC, what the hell is wrong with that?  If they don't want to venture outside of their safety zones and are perfectly happy there, isn't that there call to make?  I get so frickin' tired of people who are elitist enough to call other people who share their love of the medium as "average" and what they read as "lowest common denominator."  (I wonder which half of 11 O'Clock I'm referring to here?   )

I'm not saying we can't try to convert those people to other stuff but you don't do that by calling them "average."  We all love the medium to one degree or another.  Don't make me feel beneath you or stupid just because I'm not reading the latest super-hero wannabe book out of Image or whatever you deem worthy from Bendis.

Oh, and I get it, you like Noble Causes.  Was a Noble Causes book even released this week to warrant that much discussion?

Just so I'm not leaving the post with the wrong impression, I love the cast guys. I was yelling at it on the way home today and that's usually a good thing.  I may not agree with ya (ah, that harkens back to the old BB days and now you'd dragged Chris down with you) but I can't not listen to you either.

[Chris]

I hear what you're saying Scott, and I agree with you on a lot of the points.

When I'm on 11 O'Clock Comics I'm really just sitting around and chatting with friends. I'm a lot more honest about comics and the comics industry than I am on AC for the most part. Therefore you're gonna get some pretty straight forward and immediate opinions from me about creators, fans, retailers etc. I won't always be PC or right in my opinions, but it will be what I feel.

You may feel belittled by thinking you're an "average" fan, I can tell you that you are anything but. You are not the person I'm talking about. You try things. You think about things. That's all I'm asking of comic fans. Fans are not casual readers. I agree that you should read what you like and buy what you read.

...and a lot of the time I'm talking about myself. I bought Secret Invasion. Shame on me.

[VinceB]

Phrase I never need to hear again:  Average comic book reader.

Methinks you're reading a bit too much into the phrase. If you PRIMARILY buy SUPERHERO books, like it or not and call it whatever else you will, you are the AVERAGE COMIC READER. There's no spin being applied, here. The AVERAGE COMIC READER consumes a LOT of SUPERHERO BOOKS.

And we talked Noble Causes because it is an excellent example of GOOD COMICS -- a NEW issue of which was released this Wednesday.

[Chris]

I'm going to chime in on the Noble Causes as well.

A GIANT omnibus was just released in the last couple months, and a relaunch of the series just started. I enjoy the book, and I believe it needs to be talked about for people that haven't tried it out and might enjoy it as well. That's 100% why I do podcasts. To spread the word about books people may not be reading.


And just so everybody knows, nothing about 11 O'Clock is scripted. It really is just a free flowing conversation that is going to go wherever it goes. If we talk about EC Comics for an hour in a future episode it wouldn't surprise me...

[VinceB]

If someone only enjoys superheroes from Marvel or DC, what the hell is wrong with that?  If they don't want to venture outside of their safety zones and are perfectly happy there, isn't that there call to make?  I get so frickin' tired of people who are elitist enough to call other people who share their love of the medium as "average" and what they read as "lowest common denominator."  (I wonder which half of 11 O'Clock I'm referring to here?   )

See the way you offset "lowest common denominator" above? That tells me you misinterpreted my comments. When I use the phrase, I'm not suggesting that the intelligence of that group is somehow less than others or that their "standing" within the comics community is somehow lessened by their choice of reading material. I intend it to mean exactly that for which it stands in numerical terms: a commonality shared among the AVERAGE of a group of whatever. Readers of superhero books are the LCD of the comics buying community. The fact cannot be disputed when one consults the numbers. I'm not wielding it in a derisive manner or to condescend, but as a point of FACT.

And if I was elitist enough to believe that superhero books were beneath me, why the hell would I gush over Noble Causes? Trinity? Final Crisis? Does it make sense that I would condemn the genre on the one hand and laud good examples of the same on the other?

Maybe I should preface every episode with, "Hi! I'm VinceB and I DO NOT HATE SUPERHERO BOOKS!" 

[Scott C.]

I'm going to chime in on the Noble Causes as well.

A GIANT omnibus was just released in the last couple months, and a relaunch of the series just started. I enjoy the book, and I believe it needs to be talked about for people that haven't tried it out and might enjoy it as well. That's 100% why I do podcasts. To spread the word about books people may not be reading.


And just so everybody knows, nothing about 11 O'Clock is scripted. It really is just a free flowing conversation that is going to go wherever it goes. If we talk about EC Comics for an hour in a future episode it wouldn't surprise me...

I'm only picking on Noble Causes because I have read some of it and it wasn't my cup of tea.  And from my side of the podcast as a listener, I just don't understand all the Faerber or Kirkman love (I've never understood Walking Dead or Invincible.)  That's just me and my own experiences, though.  Many of my tastes don't match up with podcasters or bloggers that I know or respect.

And the term "average" when it comes to fellow comic fans is just one of those that raises my hackles.  I'm assuming we've all come from a background where we were that "average" fan at one point or another and too often when the term is used, it ends up sounding like the speaker is putting himself or herself above the "average" fan.  Not saying that's what's going on here but that's how it often sounds to me.

And Chris, there's no harm in buying Secret Invasion.  I'm actually enjoying it on a purely popcorn level.

[Scott C.]

See the way you offset "lowest common denominator" above? That tells me you misinterpreted my comments. When I use the phrase, I'm not suggesting that the intelligence of that group is somehow less than others or that their "standing" within the comics community is somehow lessened by their choice of reading material. I intend it to mean exactly that for which it stands for in numerical terms: a commonality shared among the AVERAGE of a group of whatever. Readers of superhero books are the LCD of the comics buying community. The fact cannot be disputed when one consults the numbers. I'm not wielding it in a derisive manner or to condescend, but as a point of FACT.

So there's no implied judgment when anyone says something appeals to the Lowest common denominator?  When you use that term and then proceed to rip on the book, it doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together.  It may be full of silly concepts (and I couldn't read issue 3 now without thinking how stupid a Giant-Man skrull was) but how is it any sillier than a radioactive spider bit not killing someone? 

And if I was elitist enough to believe that superhero books were beneath me, why the hell would I gush over Noble Causes? Trinity? Final Crisis? Does it make sense that I would condemn the genre on the one hand and laud good examples of the same on the other?

Maybe I should preface every episode with, "Hi! I'm VinceB and I DO NOT HATE SUPERHERO BOOKS!" 

Well we know that for a fact.  You just hate Marvel, don't you?  But now you're just twisting my words.  When have I said that VinceB hates superheroes?  Heck, anyone who's reading the Star Wars books is alright in my book.   

[Scott C.]

Maybe I should preface every episode with, "Hi! I'm VinceB and I DO NOT HATE SUPERHERO BOOKS!" 

And aren't you supposed to be on vacation or something?

[VinceB]

So there's no implied judgment when anyone says something appeals to the Lowest common denominator?  When you use that term and then proceed to rip on the book, it doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together.  It may be full of silly concepts (and I couldn't read issue 3 now without thinking how stupid a Giant-Man skrull was) but how is it any sillier than a radioactive spider bit not killing someone?

Implied judgment from me? I revel in the lowbrow! Who the hell am I to judge?

Seriously, no, I'm not implying anything. If your brain wasn't turned to mush from all those dumbass superhero books you read, you'd already know that.

[VinceB]

And aren't you supposed to be on vacation or something?

Starts tomorrow morning with MoCCA.

[Scott C.]

Implied judgment from me? I revel in the lowbrow! Who the hell am I to judge?

Seriously, no, I'm not implying anything. If your brain wasn't turned to mush from all those dumbass superhero books you read, you'd already know that.

This is your brain.   

This is your brain on Secret Invasion.   

[Wood]

Seriously...ya bunch of comic snobs!