11 O'Clock Comics Episode 6

[DGoodhart]

I started this at the office before leaving today... and again, you guys are just doing a real nice job.  Looking forward to listening to the rest when I get back in on Monday...

[VinceB]

I started this at the office before leaving today... and again, you guys are just doing a real nice job.  Looking forward to listening to the rest when I get back in on Monday...

Thank you, DG. Very much appreciated.

[Wood]

Karma to DG for the kind words.

[ccordova2]

Seriously...ya bunch of comic snobs!








 

YEEEEAAAAAH!!!   

wood im sorry i left you out in my voicemail i try to pull it all off the top of my head & i was brain farting. my bad 

[thefreakytiki]

Damn you for your 1 1/2 marathons!   

In regards to the "onion peel thin" paper, I can't agree more.  As I was reading my books on the train yesterday and the pages were curling like fortune telling fish!

Keep up the good work boys.  I'm lovin' it!


the Tiki

[David]

I heard something that I disagree with: "X-Men Legacy is the best X-Book"..... I like Uncanny and Wolverine: First Class better. (but X-Men Legacy is pretty good).... I am an X-Men Shill.

Fair enough.

Wolverine: First Class is a great book, but not something I can go to for my monthly mutant fix.  And Uncanny is good, but not consistently good.  X-Men under Carey has been great, I adored Blinded By The Light, enjoyed the Ramos art in the Messiah CompleX chapters, and now that it's X-Men: Legacy, it hasn't let up.  Scot Eaton and John Dell make me yelp with glee.  The flashback sequences may be done by artists I'm not keen on, but they aren't offensive to me.

Legacy is giving me backstory on Chuck done by a writer that I like and art that's drool inducing.  And I get some old school X-Men, when applicable. 

Uncanny's current arc may have some nice pencils by Mike Choi (love his 60s Scott) by one month I may enjoy the story in San Francisco and the next month, the one in Russia.  I have yet to be blown away with the complete package. 

Wolverine: First Class - which I think is fantastic and pimp on Marvel Noise every chance I get - is focusing on two characters.  Even if it's more in tune to the 616 than X-Men: First Class, it's not that 'type' of X-title to me.

So for my money, now that Astonishing X-Men is getting an overhaul, X-Men: Legacy is the best X-book.

[Steve Raker]

Great episode, guys.  Thanks to this cast and the informal format, you're at the top of my playlist every week.
Sounds like Wood and I are somewhat similar in our love for Marvel's books, and that we don't buy Ultimate books (although I'll be picking up 'Origins').
No need to keep each other in check regarding content or where the conversation goes, as far as I'm concerned.  If you want to talk about paper, go for it, and Chris, if you have knowledge from your trade, it's fun to hear how your perception is given that lens.  Talk about all the comics minutia you want, paper, bags, boards, boxes, ink, stink, kink.... whatever you think .  Give us some credit as an audience...  we can not only handle and not be bored by it, we're right there with you!

[VinceB]

Give us some credit as an audience...  we can not only handle and not be bored by it, we're right there with you!

He's just gun shy from working with Salazar for so long. 

[Chris]

That's only funny because it's true!

[darrell]

The astonishing X-men run is not as good as it could have been to me because of the long delays.

[Equinox]

The astonishing X-men run is not as good as it could have been to me because of the long delays.

True, but this book, like Young Avengers, is something that just begs to be collected in an Omnibus format.  The thought of reading the entire 25 issue run in one oversized collected format is more than enough to give it a free pass for all its delays.

Nice to see a special cameo by Randal Dowling and Kim Suskind in the most recent issue though.

[Steve Raker]

True, but this book, like Young Avengers, is something that just begs to be collected in an Omnibus format.  The thought of reading the entire 25 issue run in one oversized collected format is more than enough to give it a free pass for all its delays.

They printed the first 12 issues in an 'omnibus-size' vol.1 HC.  It's a fun read.  If they just print the 2nd 12 issues + Giant-Size in a vol.2 HC, that'll be plenty good for me.  Sometimes those omnibus's/omnibi are just too lumbersome to hold/balance, etc.

Nice to see a special cameo by Randal Dowling and Kim Suskind in the most recent issue though.

Nice!

[DGoodhart]

I could not remember if it was this episode or episode five, but it was in either of those and I want to address this myself a bit...

I heard Mark Waid's interview on Word Balloon and of course Jason brought this up on the show and the hullaballoo around Nightwing... Y'know, the way Waid was telling it in his interview, it was like it was this big conspiracy and yet it's never been the case.  Dan DiDio is on the record for wanting to have killed off Nightwing, both through convention panels and I think even in the back section of the Infinite Crisis collection, this is no big secret.  He got shot down by plenty of creators (including Geoff Johns) and so the character was kept alive. But like I said, this was no secret.  When Waid was talking about wanting to get the character for himself and he wasn't able to get it, well honestly, it sounded more to me like sour grapes than anything else.  Peter Tomasi and Rags Morales are doing a great job with the character right now, so much so that I'm genuinely excited over the book again...

Now, and honestly, I'm not trying to go Marvel Vs. DC here, but I want to bring up the Captain Marvel mini-series as the counter with this and ask why isn't this one being questioned.  I liked the mini-series my own self, but it's pretty obvious from reading that and Civil War:  The Return in connection with that and seeing that this clearly wasn't what was intedned for the character for the start (hell, David mentioned to me back in the old Marvel Noise forum, that originally it was to be Paul Jenkins and Tom Raney doing the mini, but obviously something happened).  Personally, I tend to think that the character was brought back without a clear idea of how Marvel wanted to handle him, and they got lucky with the series itself.  But still, in the end, this might've been a case where the character should've remained killed off in the first place (even though they found their own way around it) because the initial creator's plans just didn't fit with what the company line was going to be... and I think the same thing could be said with what Mark waid was going to do with Nightwing...

[Wood]

I could not remember if it was this episode or episode five, but it was in either of those and I want to address this myself a bit...

I heard Mark Waid's interview on Word Balloon and of course Jason brought this up on the show and the hullaballoo around Nightwing... Y'know, the way Waid was telling it in his interview, it was like it was this big conspiracy and yet it's never been the case.  Dan DiDio is on the record for wanting to have killed off Nightwing, both through convention panels and I think even in the back section of the Infinite Crisis collection, this is no big secret.  He got shot down by plenty of creators (including Geoff Johns) and so the character was kept alive. But like I said, this was no secret.  When Waid was talking about wanting to get the character for himself and he wasn't able to get it, well honestly, it sounded more to me like sour grapes than anything else.  Peter Tomasi and Rags Morales are doing a great job with the character right now, so much so that I'm genuinely excited over the book again...

Now, and honestly, I'm not trying to go Marvel Vs. DC here, but I want to bring up the Captain Marvel mini-series as the counter with this and ask why isn't this one being questioned.  I liked the mini-series my own self, but it's pretty obvious from reading that and Civil War:  The Return in connection with that and seeing that this clearly wasn't what was intedned for the character for the start (hell, David mentioned to me back in the old Marvel Noise forum, that originally it was to be Paul Jenkins and Tom Raney doing the mini, but obviously something happened).  Personally, I tend to think that the character was brought back without a clear idea of how Marvel wanted to handle him, and they got lucky with the series itself.  But still, in the end, this might've been a case where the character should've remained killed off in the first place (even though they found their own way around it) because the initial creator's plans just didn't fit with what the company line was going to be... and I think the same thing could be said with what Mark waid was going to do with Nightwing...

I don't disagree that Waid sounds bitter about it, but to his credit he went out of his way to compliment Peter Tomasi and said several times that Tomasi is writing the best Nightwing we've seen in years.

As to the DC vs. Marvel thing, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Our show isn't scripted and I was specifically citing a Mark Waid interview; where he happened to talk openly about a few things that I'm sure would surprise a lot of listeners as they did me. Could've just as easily been a Marvel creator talking off the cuff; but Waid is a DC guy. It's coincidental who he writes for.

[darrell]

Right now Tomasi is writing a pretty good Niightwing run right now and there could be any number of reasons why Waid was not given the book.

[Wood]

Not to pick on you darrel but this is starting to get frustrating. Waid said in the interview that Tomasi is doing a great job on Nightwing AND I made sure to point out that Waid said as much. And OF COURSE there are plenty of reasons why he wasn't put on the book, but when one of DC's premier creators publicly states that he's "begged" to be put on a book and hasn't been, I think it's interesting in that most people would assume guys like Johns and Waid have the pick of the litter. Clearly they don't; which is eye opening, at least for me and presumably a few others.

[El Dave]

Another fun episode, guys! 

I agree with you so far. I'm a huge Hickman fan...Nightly News and Pax Romana show real genius. And I'm equally anticipating good things from Red Mass from Mars and The Core. But as someone who actually invests in venture capital deals; I was reading that 2nd issue thinking that no one outside of a tiny subset of the readers who know the inner workings of venture cap would find that remotely entertaining. Was I wrong?

The premise, and some of the things hinted at in the monkey scenes in both issues 1 and 2 make me hopeful for a big payoff in the end, but you really can't afford to take an entire issue to filibuster in such a short series.

I'm not the least bit interested in venture capital, and I really enjoyed the issue. This seemed to be the rest of the world building for the series, so I'm wondering if it was all stuff that he felt needed to be included, but working with another artist limited his ability to present it the way he wanted.

But hey, you put out a book on Transhumanism and I'll read it, even if it's only about the inner workings of biotech startup funding.

[DGoodhart]

As to the DC vs. Marvel thing, I'm not sure what this has to do with anything? Our show isn't scripted and I was specifically citing a Mark Waid interview; where he happened to talk openly about a few things that I'm sure would surprise a lot of listeners as they did me. Could've just as easily been a Marvel creator talking off the cuff; but Waid is a DC guy. It's coincidental who he writes for.

Actually that was more pointing to a PM conversation David and I were having, and basically I was saying that because I wasn't trying to use this example as something to just be playing the Marvel Vs. DC card... nothing about a creator preference at all... just that I wasn't using that example as me being more a DC fan and picking a Marvel deal to moan about it...

[Jay Tomio]

I think it's interesting in that most people would assume guys like Johns and Waid have the pick of the litter. Clearly they don't; which is eye opening, at least for me and presumably a few others.

That basically would be the relevant gist IMHO. While it doesn't surprise me that editors don't give in to every request made by top flight talent. It does, however, surprise me when the request is for Nightwing and is refused.

 No knock on Tomasi and Rags which is irrelevant as we don't know - I think - when Waid made his requests, but say a Waid and Rags series might just make Nightwing more than a blip in the bigger picture. Regarding the planned death, I think its a hard sell considering the generation of many of the writers/decision makers involved and the realy affinity they have for the DCU to agree to it - it's the OG Robin, that's tough to be that guy that kills Dick Grayson.  From Didio's point of view, it (their reasoning) is probably obvious -any Nightwing growth ages Bruce. I plan on getting a HC of the current Nightwing stuff if it comes out, because I find it almost funny somebody of Rag's caliber is on that book - and once you're a VALIANT grad, you are on my list.


Oh yeah, when Omega the Unknown is mentioned, then,  must follow

[Big Green Snot]

I hate Nightwing, I hope they really do kill him. Along with anyone who dresses or names themselves after a bird. Every canary, robin, and blue jay must go. Dammit, who thought naming super heroes after birds was a good idea anyway?