LOST talk

[Spooky]

She wasn't a candidate according to the cave, but she was on the lighthouse wheel at 51 degrees.

True, and 51 isn't one of the numbers. It could be that it is a curve ball from the writers to make us believe that she isn't a candidate by giving her a number, that isn't in the equation. However Dogen didn't mention her when he received the list, and Sun also didn't mention her when she told Jack about the remaining candidates.

Possible explanation/proof can be found in Par Avion:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gQ1slklU74s&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/gQ1slklU74s&rel=1</a>
(skip to 3:55)

[ojedi]

After the last episode it seems to me that the relationship of Jacob and the Man In Black is exactly like God and The Devil.

Jacob believes we can all be "good" but only creates the circumstances for us to act on our own - he does not interfere.
The Man In Black will actively try to corrupt us but only by tempting us and seeing if we will give in to our desires.

This is exactly what I got out of it.

[Mike Murphy]

So, if it hasn't been posted already, tonight's episode has me convinced

neither Jin nor Sun are candidates- it's their daughter.

Also, I think

the LA verse version of Sun and Jin is the closest the characters are gonna get to having a happy ending- pretty sure Sun's gonna bite the bullet on the island, or in the upcoming sub incident.

[knapstar]

While I did enjoy this episode, I'm worried for next week(references to preview for next week below):

Between what I think is Widmore's Plan (send Desmond back to the past to take out MIB during a period when he was vulnerable) and the use of Amazing Grace in the preview has me thinking either he or someone else major is not making it out of the next episode.

[Tom Morris]

DESMOND is just like LAYLA MILLER!

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

DESMOND is just like LAYLA MILLER!

Like in House of M?! Totally, I wonder if HoM if what me make this prediction:
My theory after the first episode of the season was that the "flashsideways" were not really that but flashbacks into the recent past, showing how the bomb changed things, but they've been set aright. It looks like I might have been right, with Desmond "The Constant" Hume being the key factor to get them to all wake up from the 'dream' of a "wrong" reality.

[Renata12]

Very cool.

[Spooky]

Nobody is interested in Lost anymore? 

I think the "Last Recruit" was great, and especially the cliffhanger - did Jack die and is now under Smokey's influence?

[ryan]

Nobody is interested in Lost anymore? 

I think the "Last Recruit" was great, and especially the cliffhanger - did Jack die and is now under Smokey's influence?

i took that line by Smokie to mean that he just isnt aware of Jacks true intentions yet and thinks Jack left the others to join back with Locke ('last recruit'?)....though who knows. Smokie at least has a hostage now, sorta.

[Spooky]

I don't think Jack is in an hostage position, because the opposition doesn't need Jack to succeed. While Smokey needs all the other survivors to leave with him. He is at a clear disadvantage right now. I think Widmore's action proved that, and it will be very interesting to see how Smokey will counteract.

[ryan]

I don't think Jack is in an hostage position, because the opposition doesn't need Jack to succeed. While Smokey needs all the other survivors to leave with him. He is at a clear disadvantage right now. I think Widmore's action proved that, and it will be very interesting to see how Smokey will counteract.

yea, they dont need him but put in the shit i dont see any of them just letting him be killed at Smokies hand (if threatened)....so i meant hostage more in that sense

[Matt]

Maybe I missed something, but it seems like Sawyer's group is ready to write off Jack and Miles - not that they have much choice.

I wish the reunion had more impact.  First I was worried they would get zapped by the pylons, then I couldn't stop thinking how cheesy the dialogue was.

[slurmo]

Maybe I missed something, but it seems like Sawyer's group is ready to write off Jack and Miles - not that they have much choice.

I wish the reunion had more impact.  First I was worried they would get zapped by the pylons, then I couldn't stop thinking how cheesy the dialogue was.

yeah the dialogue was terrible. umm..why weren't they speaking their native tongue?

I'm probably in the minority here, but I just want to be done with it already.

[ryan]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I just want to be done with it already.

 
 

[Lucien21]

Clip from next weeks episode where Hurley throws a watch to Desmond 


- From new Fraggels comic (I just never realised until now that Hurley was a Gorg)

[ryan]

just heard a theory about the flash sideways and i needed to share bc its possibilities blow my mind!

so here it is

the flash sideways is actually a flashback of the original timeline and so the season 1 stuff on has been the fractured timeline this whole time. the main reasoning for this was Dogen's timeline and how we havent seen him and his kid get in the accident that causes Dogen to be approached by Jacob and end up on the island in the first place (which is why it hasnt been shown bc itd blow the surprise). that and how Dogen explained to Sayid that he was approached by Jacob -specifically- and given this 'deal' but in all the Jacob interactions we've seen he has never been this forward, they have always been just 'touched'....BUT who has offered this type of thing? MAN IN BLACK! so, in the flash sideways is the MiB the one, off island, 'touching' the losties???? and what does that mean? it hints at MiB and Jacob being fractured themselves!!! (maybe). it does beg the question why havent we seen Jacob in the sideways verse? and makes the absence of MiB's name all more intriguing. 

[Spooky]

Hmm...

Just so that we're on the same page, you theorize that the flash-sideways are the continuation, it has to be since they landed in LA, of the real timeline from which the island timeline is a divergion of, am I right?

[Ray Mescallado]

What would make me very, very happy is if there's some kind of revelation that Richard Alpert occasionally goes into an alternate timeline where he becomes Batmanuel. I'm not asking for Arthur to be revealed as Smokie - though that'd be a nice twist - I'd just like to see my two favorite Nestor Carbonell characters converge.

[ryan]

Hmm...

Just so that we're on the same page, you theorize that the flash-sideways are the continuation, it has to be since they landed in LA, of the real timeline from which the island timeline is a divergion of, am I right?

No im saying that

in the 'real' timeline they would have landed and done all the stuff they have been doing in the sideways verse, BUT they somehow all make deals in this sideways verse and so they get re-booted/reset/flahsed to before when they are all on the plane and now are on the fractured 'island' timeline. i dont think it necessarily has to be linear since time travel has already been in play. here's the theory more thoroughly since it has since been written in a full article(may make more sense):

you know I've always had issue with Dogen's deal; the deal that he made, supposedly with Jacob, to save his son's life after his son was in a horrible car accident.

I had issues with this because (and we've brought this up before) we didn't get to see this played out in a character flashback. We rationalized that since Dogen was a new character, and it was the final season, he wouldn't get his own flashback episode. That made sense. But there was more that bugged me. Jacob doesn't make deals to save people's lives. He said that point blank to Richard in "Ab Aeterno." Who does make those kind of deals? The deal to bring back loved ones? The Man in Black does. But he can't leave The Island. So who made the deal with Dogen?

We assumed that, when we saw Dogen and his son in the flash-sideways universe ("Lighthouse"), that that new dream-world reality where Dogen got to be with his kid was a by-product of his "deal." Dogen was told the he wouldn't be allowed to be with his kid, but that his kid would live. So we thought that, maybe, this new flash-sideways version of Dogen was what the deal-maker was talking about.

Dogen can kill a man with a single whisker.
But what if we weren't shown a flashback of the hospital deal with Dogen because... it hasn't happened yet! And because it will happen, in Jack's hospital in the flash-sideways universe! That's right everyone. The Flash-Sideways, while still taking place in an alternate timeline/universe… are FLASHBACKS! They are everyone's real life! And in this flash-sideways world where we've now seen Dogen AND his son, we're all soon going to see Dogen get approached by someone, after his son is injured, to make a deal. This Flash-Sideways world is actually where all of our characters will make a deal, like Dogen will, to leave their life behind in order to get something, or save someone, they love!

Perhaps Kate will make a deal to be set "free." Maybe Sawyer will leap at the chance to kill Anthony Cooper. Our characters, our "Candidates," were chosen by Jacob in The Island timeline because of a deal that they already made with Jacob (or someone) in the previous "flash-sideways" timeline. That's how he's choosing them and putting their names on the compass. We've got it backwards. The flash-sideways world doesn't exist because of the The Island world that we've been following for five years. The Island world exist because of the events we're witnessing in the flash-sideways.

And now comes an even bigger mindblower! What if it wasn't Jacob who we know who made the deal with Dogen? Dogen seemed to know, after Sayid returned from his failed attempt to kill TMIB, exactly what kind of deal TMIB would have offered him. It was way too familiar. Jacob doesn't make those kind of deals. TMIB does. So what if, in the FS Universe, all of our regulars will be offered a deal by The Man in Black? He'll come to the hospital and find people at their weakest moment and get them to give up their life to save something. And what if this evil behavior - making these deals - is what gets him a life sentence on The Island!

Dogen said that a man named "Jacob" approached him in the hospital, but who was that "Jacob" really? We only assume it was the Jacob in the white shirt because we've seen him go on adventures off of The Island. But if the flash-sideways universe is taking place before all of that, and perhaps before The Man in Black's imprisonment, then it could have been TMIB saying his name was Jacob. And how about this…

THE MAN IN BLACK IS JACOB TOO! They're both two different sides of the same man. Dogen told Sayid that within every man is a scale. "On one side of the scale there is good and on the other side evil." They're the same person. And that's how "Jacob" made the deal with Dogen.

It's also how Jacob, in white, already knew Ilana in the "Island" timeline and knew how to find her with her face bandaged (still for unknown reasons!). He knew her from the sideways world, where she acted as sort of an agent. And she seemed to know, perhaps seeing as how she was working with the very "knowing" Desmond, who The Candidates were and what they meant to the world.

[Spooky]

You're right, it's mind-bending. I'll need to re-watch some episodes of this season in order to say, if I agree or not.