Marvel Noise Episode 71

[David]

Another week, another chance to talk Marvel comic books!  Tom runs down mutants, Steve returns with another DeFalco/Ryan Fantastic Four installment, the Besenyodis team up, and Carlos calls!  All this and some ramblin’ from our host.

Titles mentioned include Ghost Rider, X-Men: First Class Finals, Black Panther, Captain Britain and MI13, and Secret Warriors.

Christy McLaren, Five O’Clock Friday (http://www.clubshedlive.com/)

Items shipping March 18, 2009:

Amazing Spider-Girl #30 $3.99
Amazing Spider-Man Extra #3 $3.99
Amazing Spider-Man Vol 2 #588 $3.99
Avengers Disassembled Iron Man Thor And Captain America HC $49.99
Dark Avengers #3 Incentive Daniel Acuna Variant Cover (Dark Reign Tie-In) - [PI]
Dark Avengers #3 Regular Mike Deodato Jr Cover (Dark Reign Tie-In) $3.99
Deadpool Games Of Death $3.99
Deadpool Vol 1 Secret Invasion HC $19.99
Enders Game Battle School #4 $3.99
Eternals Vol 4 #9 $2.99
Marvel Adventures Avengers #34 $2.99
Marvel Illustrated Picture Of Dorian Gray TP $14.99
Mighty Avengers Vol 3 Secret Invasion Book 1 TP Book Market Mighty Avengers Vol 3 Spine $14.99
Mighty Avengers Vol 3 Secret Invasion Book 1 TP Direct Market Secret Invasion Mighty Avengers Spine $14.99
Moon Knight Vol 5 #28 $2.99
Ms Marvel Vol 6 Ascension HC $19.99
New Mutants Classic Vol 4 TP $24.99
Powers Vol 12 25 Coolest Dead Superheroes Of All Time TP $24.99
Punisher Vol 7 #3 Target Green Goblin Cover (Dark Reign Tie-In) $2.99
Punisher Vol 7 #3 Target Hobgoblin Cover (Dark Reign Tie-In) $2.99
Punisher War Journal Vol 4 Jigsaw TP $16.99
Runaways Dead Wrong HC Book Market Edition $19.99
Runaways Dead Wrong HC Direct Edition $19.99
Samurai Legend Vol 1 HC $24.99
Scourge Of The Gods #3 $5.99
Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane Sophomore Jinx HC Book Market Edition $19.99
Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane Sophomore Jinx HC Direct Market Edition $19.99
Spider-Man Noir #4 Regular Patrick Zircher Cover $3.99
Spider-Man Noir #4 Variant Dennis Calero Cover $3.99
Squadron Supreme Power To The People TP $16.99
Squadron Supreme Vol 1 Pre-War Years TP $16.99
Ultimate X-Men #100 Incentive Ed McGuinness White Variant Cover (Ultimatum Tie-In) - [PI]
Ultimate X-Men #100 Regular Ed McGuinness Cover (Ultimatum Tie-In) $3.99
Ultimatum #3 Incentive Ed McGuinness Sketch Cover - [PI]
Ultimatum #3 Incentive Ed McGuinness Variant Cover - [PI]
Ultimatum #3 Regular David Finch Cover $3.99
Uncanny X-Men #507 Incentive Michael Golden Variant Cover - [PI]
Uncanny X-Men #507 Regular Terry Dodson Cover $2.99
Wolverine Origins #34 (Dark Reign Tie-In) $2.99
Wolverine Vol 3 #71 $2.99
X-Factor Vol 3 #41 $2.99
X-Force Vol 3 #13 (Messiah War Tie-In) $2.99
X-Men First Class Wonder Years TP $19.99
X-Men Legacy #222 $2.99
Young X-Men #12 $2.99

Product Updates:

• Amazing Spider-Man Extra #3 (JAN092463D, $3.99; FOC 02/19/09) will have art by Yanick Paquette and Fabrizio Fiorentino in addition to Phil Jimenez.
• Avengers Disassembled HC: Iron Man/Thor/Captain America (JAN092570D, $49.99; FOC 02/05/09) will be 456 pages, not 448 pages.
• Deadpool: Games of Death (JAN092543D, $3.99; FOC 02/26/09) will carry a Parental Advisory, not a T+ rating.
• Deadpool: Game$ of Death (JAN092543D, $3.99; FOC 02/26/09) will be 40 pages, not 48 pages. No content has been changed.
• Deadpool Premiere HC Vol. 01: Secret Invasion (JAN092586D, $19.99; FOC 02/05/09) will be 136 pages, not 120 pages.
• New Mutants Classic TP: Vol. 04 (JAN092610D, $24.99) will have 232 pages, not 224 pages.
• The Powers TP Vol. 12: Coolest Dead Superheroes (OCT082490D, $19.95; FOC 12/18/08) will have 240 pages, not 200 pages.
• The Powers TP Vol. 12: Coolest Dead Superheroes (OCT082490D, FOC 01/08/09) will be $24.99, not $19.95.
• Punisher War Journal TP Vol. 04: Jigsaw (JAN092606D; FOC 02/05/09) will be $16.99, not $15.99.
• Runaways Premiere HC: Dead Wrong (JAN092575D, $19.99) will have 136 pages, not 144 pages.
• Soleil Samurai HC Vol. 01: Legend (JAN092585D, $24.99; FOC 02/05/09) will be 192 pages, not 200 pages.
• Ultimate X-Men #100 White Brooks Variant (DEC082347D, $3.99; FOC 02/05/09) will have cover art by Ed McGuinness, not Mark Brooks.

[Chad (Grilled Cheese Sandwich)]

Downloaded and ready for listening!!

[David]

Downloaded and ready for listening!!

 

Enjoy!!

[Adam Besenyodi]

CARLOS!

I love that Birth of Venom tpb.  I picked it up in advance of Spidey 3 hitting theaters a couple of years ago.  I have a lot of the pre-issue #300 issues collected in it, but hadn't read any of the stuff from issue #300 on, so it was a good primer for me.  (Along with preparing me for the inevitable questions from the wife coming out of the movie theater.)

Karma.  Glad you're back!

[Steve Raker]

Shortly after recording my bit for the show (at the last of the last minute at that!), while painting the baby room I realized, "oh, yeah!" - the Invincible Man made his last (and next, to the one I mentioned in FF #196...  my memory was right about that, at least!) appearance at the end of the John Byrne run, when Doom was inhabiting that other guy's body (the guy in the crowd that he mind-switched with just before being incinerated by Tyros the Terrible).  Doom dressed as the Invincible Man to trick Sue into breaking him into the Latverian embassy in NYC, which she did, and the next ish he convinced the Beyonder (secret wars II) to give him his old, restored body back (yawn.).



I had to look up the first appearance of the Invincible Man to revive my flaccid recall...  the Invincible Man first seemed to possess all the powers of the FF...  and was revealed to be Johnny & Sue's father...  but then further revealed to actually be the Super-Skrull (friggin' Skrulls) in disguise, with Dr Storm his prisoner.



And here's FF #196 that I mentioned, where Doom has Reed hypnotized into the role, channeling the power of the Psycho-Man and screwing with his teammate's emotions:



Here's the covers for the 6 issue 'Nobody Gets Out Alive'...  enjoy!:

[Adam Besenyodi]

To steal a quote from Singles, Namor is Mr. Sensitive Ponytail Man.

[Steve Raker]

To steal a quote from Singles, Namor is Mr. Sensitive Ponytail Man.

Yup! At the end of the Byrne run on Namor, Iron Fist villian Master Khan mindwiped subby, and when Jae Lee then came on, providing art chores, Namor's hair was all long and kinetic, he was beareded, etc....   in the ashes of that arc, Geof Isherwood's became the regular artist, and he went with the long ponytail look:



...by the way, the seduction and subjegation of Sue all occurred in Namor's mind

[Tom Morris]

Really Sue was the biggest problem of the FF books during this time.  I eventually gave up reading comics during the end of this run.  Why did Marvel try to change some many women characters during this time?  MJ was a chain smoker, Sue was acting like Emma Frost, Betty Banner was looking like Susan Powter, ect.

[Steve Raker]

Really Sue was the biggest problem of the FF books during this time.  I eventually gave up reading comics during the end of this run.  Why did Marvel try to change some many women characters during this time?  MJ was a chain smoker, Sue was acting like Emma Frost, Betty Banner was looking like Susan Powter, ect.

...and I'm on the complete opposite side of the coin.. I feel like Sue finally got a storyline (other than births and miscarrages), that she was finally taking charge and having an adventure rather that simply tagging along with the boys.  She was finally having some character growth, some loss, some new challenges she had to rise up to meet, sexiness, confidence and strength.  Sue drove this whole run and I think that's what made it so great, and why I'm taking the time to present it to everybody, as people seem to look back at this run unfondly, and I think that it's up there tied with or ahead of Wolfman's run as the 3rd best run on the FF behind Lee/Kirby and Byrne.  SOOO much going each issue, new threats each issue, running subplots, the FF never getting a rest before the next right hook, and the art was fantastic (pun intended)!

I'm curious, what was the problem with Sue during this time...  that Namor had his ankle-wings in an uproar, thinking he might have a chance with Reed gone?  That the Malice storyline went on longer than 2 issues as it did during Byrne's run and had other manifestations than the old 'wearing tattered robes and mask' look?  That Reed was gone? Without Malice, Sue's character is riddled with thought balloons... she's questioning herself, trying to stay true to her hope that Reed is out there, trying to figure it all out while the others are dicking around...  hell, she's the Rorschach of this whole storyline, in the sense that she's the only one who sees a mystery that needs to be solved and the only one willing to put some effort in to solving it...  again, as usual, she's taking care of the family, but in an abstract, adventure story metaphor kinda way...   and she drove an invisible spike through Galactus' chest!  Way cool.

[Steve Raker]

...and another thing ..

Even when Malice'd up, other than wearing long white boots and gloves and being a blonde (although we know Emma actually isn't), that's about all Sue shared in common with Emma during this run...  Sue never plotted, planned, schemed or manipulated anyone, even passive-agressively (as Sue has often done handled by other writers), or acted for selfish interests.  These are all core character traits of Emma.  Sue was more a cornered woman who had her child and her husband ripped from her, and rather than 'flight' or 'fright', she went with 'fight', like the woman lifting the burning car to free her trapped kid.  Even her search for Reed wasnt a weak, selfish, can't-let-go deal... She felt that Reed was being held by Doom and needed her to rescue him.

Y'know, Ben was handled pretty cool during this run, too.....

[New Mutant]

Steve Raker, you Hoebag-Sue Richards Apologist!!   
Bless your heart, My Raker!  She needs it!  I think I may have felt what Tom felt at the time, and I may also have stopped reading at that time too.  I know there was a point where I lapsed    .  I'm not sure if it was outer circumstance (the move to Missouri) or if it was because of content.  Only you could sell it though, Steve!  And we do agree, the long white sleeves and full leg gear is a pretty great costume (with the four filled IN).  Modest and feminine, yet without being vulgar.

And how much do I love Kiddo Besenyodi?  I was listening on the subway and I had to hide my face in my hands to keep from undue attention.  Transformative bursts of joy on my face.  Please make sure to never ever let him read the current Avengers' arcs until after Steve Rogers and Janet Pym are alive again.  The current writers need to listen to the Besenyodis' segment before they go skulldigging another crop of superheroes.  They need to hear the childlike innocence and admiration for the hereos before they go blowing the heroes' brains/guts across the page.  I know they're writing for us, but they need to remember some of us actually LIKE admiring and being innocent.  Well okay, I like being innocent.  Just do it for ME.   

You guys know that I love you fellas madly.  MADLY!!  But I told David that he'd better not be thinking of replacing his gorgeous self with you guys.  Ever.

I want Marvel Tales.  Guest starring on Feedback (A Hero's Calling) isn't enough for me.  NOT ENOUGH!! 

So there.

[Steve Raker]

Steve Raker, you Hoebag-Sue Richards Apologist!!   

...  sigh...   haven't we been through this before? Putting hoebag (capitalized at that!) alongside of Sue's name is simply blasphemy   Sue is actually my favorite member of the FF (if I hadda pick one), and the DeFalco/Ryan/Bulanadi run is one of the main reasons why. She's the fulcrum/pivot of the whole story.

Adam's kiddo's fine contribution this week managed to tie his first bit as my top two favorite segments on Marvel Noise so far.... dad leading him along, and him rising to the occassion, really cool, cute, funny, nostolgic, and insightful (in how a young lad perceives the Marvel U's characters).  I forever want to think of Cap's shield as cutting robots in half 

[Adam Besenyodi]

And how much do I love Kiddo Besenyodi?  I was listening on the subway and I had to hide my face in my hands to keep from undue attention.  Transformative bursts of joy on my face.  Please make sure to never ever let him read the current Avengers' arcs until after Steve Rogers and Janet Pym are alive again.  The current writers need to listen to the Besenyodis' segment before they go skulldigging another crop of superheroes.  They need to hear the childlike innocence and admiration for the hereos before they go blowing the heroes' brains/guts across the page.  I know they're writing for us, but they need to remember some of us actually LIKE admiring and being innocent.  Well okay, I like being innocent.  Just do it for ME.   

Adam's kiddo's fine contribution this week managed to tie his first bit as my top two favorite segments on Marvel Noise so far.... dad leading him along, and him rising to the occassion, really cool, cute, funny, nostolgic, and insightful (in how a young lad perceives the Marvel U's characters).  I forever want to think of Cap's shield as cutting robots in half 

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

Alan, m’man.  I totally dig your love of the innocence and nostalgia around comic books and what they meant to us as kids.  It’s really cool that you can see those same qualities and positivity in what my kiddo shares.  I’m glad his take on things stirs up good thoughts for you.

Steve, you are dead on as far as how these things generally go.  He comes to me with ideas, we talk about them a little bit and I sort of get a handle on what he wants to chat about.  He grabs the DK guides or some of his comics or whatever, and he’ll ask me to write down some stuff for him to remember (like names of characters he’s worried he’ll forget).  Stuff like the Iceman story from Wolverine and the X-Men or the Cyclops question hit me out of the blue though. Cracked me up.

I’m glad he has an interest in comics and the show.  On the drive home from school every day he asks to listen to Marvel Noise as much as he asks to listen to the Star Wars Radio Drama anymore these days, which is cool.  Even if we don’t have a new Marvel Noise episode, he’ll ask to listen to old ones over again.  And stuff like Steve's contributions and Tom's Marvel History Lesson are educational and entertaining for both of us.

[Steve Raker]

Stuff like the Iceman story from Wolverine and the X-Men or the Cyclops question hit me out of the blue though. Cracked me up.

You're not the only one! 

On the drive home from school every day he asks to listen to Marvel Noise as much as he asks to listen to the Star Wars Radio Drama anymore these days, which is cool.  Even if we don’t have a new Marvel Noise episode, he’ll ask to listen to old ones over again.  And stuff like Steve's contributions and Tom's Marvel History Lesson are educational and entertaining for both of us.

Ulp!... I'll try to be on my best behavior 

[Tom Morris]

I’m glad he has an interest in comics and the show.  On the drive home from school every day he asks to listen to Marvel Noise as much as he asks to listen to the Star Wars Radio Drama anymore these days, which is cool.  Even if we don’t have a new Marvel Noise episode, he’ll ask to listen to old ones over again.  And stuff like Steve's contributions and Tom's Marvel History Lesson are educational and entertaining for both of us.

Thanks I appreciate the feedback.  My intention for the segments is to show how interesting Marvel's past is and how it connects with what is going on in the present.

[Tom Morris]

...and I'm on the complete opposite side of the coin.. I feel like Sue finally got a storyline (other than births and miscarrages), that she was finally taking charge and having an adventure rather that simply tagging along with the boys.  She was finally having some character growth, some loss, some new challenges she had to rise up to meet, sexiness, confidence and strength.  Sue drove this whole run and I think that's what made it so great, and why I'm taking the time to present it to everybody, as people seem to look back at this run unfondly, and I think that it's up there tied with or ahead of Wolfman's run as the 3rd best run on the FF behind Lee/Kirby and Byrne.  SOOO much going each issue, new threats each issue, running subplots, the FF never getting a rest before the next right hook, and the art was fantastic (pun intended)!

I'm curious, what was the problem with Sue during this time...  that Namor had his ankle-wings in an uproar, thinking he might have a chance with Reed gone?  That the Malice storyline went on longer than 2 issues as it did during Byrne's run and had other manifestations than the old 'wearing tattered robes and mask' look?  That Reed was gone? Without Malice, Sue's character is riddled with thought balloons... she's questioning herself, trying to stay true to her hope that Reed is out there, trying to figure it all out while the others are dicking around...  hell, she's the Rorschach of this whole storyline, in the sense that she's the only one who sees a mystery that needs to be solved and the only one willing to put some effort in to solving it...  again, as usual, she's taking care of the family, but in an abstract, adventure story metaphor kinda way...   and she drove an invisible spike through Galactus' chest!  Way cool.

It felt forced at the time; besides why did it have to be because of MALICE, why not its just she grew as a character.  Why did Marvel change her back?  Like i said before it felt like DeFalco wanted all of the classic women of Marvel to be gritty cause it was a new decade.  Do you agree about when Mary Jane was suddenly a chain smoker for two years?  Remember how she quit?  Peter took her to see a guy with cancer and suddenly she stopped smoking. 

[Captain J]

Tons of praise to everybody, a great episode.

Kiddo Besenyodi was great.  I had a crud day at work, he gave me the only smile I had all day. 

Steve, you've really got me wanting to read the Defalco run on FF now, you've sold me.  I think my shop has some of that in the 50 cent bins, I'll see what I can find (I already got most of the early Simonson run you mentioned a few weeks back).    And good luck with your kiddo!

[Adam Besenyodi]

Thanks I appreciate the feedback.  My intention for the segments is to show how interesting Marvel's past is and how it connects with what is going on in the present.

You're accomplishing that.  And I totally dig how you're coming at the topics from different and unique angles.  Karma.

Tons of praise to everybody, a great episode.

Kiddo Besenyodi was great.  I had a crud day at work, he gave me the only smile I had all day. 

Steve, you've really got me wanting to read the Defalco run on FF now, you've sold me.  I think my shop has some of that in the 50 cent bins, I'll see what I can find (I already got most of the early Simonson run you mentioned a few weeks back).    And good luck with your kiddo!

Glad we could help brighten your day.

You're right about the DeFalco FF run Steve's sharing with us.  I'm totally intrigued by it, and it's outside my comfort zone an in the no-man's land of the '90s for me, so that's saying something.

[Steve Raker]

It felt forced at the time; besides why did it have to be because of MALICE, why not its just she grew as a character. 

Since you admit to not having read the run, keep listening..  the threats/adventures don't stop, and Sue continues to rise to the occassion and keep things together...  it's wasn't Malice... turns out 'the magic was inside of her all along'!

Why did Marvel change her back? 

DeFalco/Ryan never did.  The Heroes Reborn deal was done without even telling the creative teams of the avengers and FF books, and DeFalco/Ryan were booted off the book, Heroes Reborn hitting 2 issues later.  Sue hasn't been 'cool' Sue since.  They gave her another kid, that's about all they've done with her.  How creative.

Like i said before it felt like DeFalco wanted all of the classic women of Marvel to be gritty cause it was a new decade. 

I never saw Sue as gritty, she was partially possessed/influenced for a story arc that would springboard her character's growth and step her up into the big leagues, just as Byrne did when he introduced Malice to Sue in the first place.  Sue's Malice, then PsychoMan encounters resulted in her taking the Invisible Woman moniker.  She snapped a few times at people when Malice'd up, but that's about as gritty as it got.  Ever been snapped at by a stressed out woman? 

Do you agree about when Mary Jane was suddenly a chain smoker for two years?  Remember how she quit?  Peter took her to see a guy with cancer and suddenly she stopped smoking. 

Seems reasonable, as MJ was a model, no?  If I remember correctly the shine was coming off the 'supermodel' craze of the '80s, and the lifestyle was no longer being romanticized.  Also, was DeFalco still writing Spider Man at this time?  He wasn't yet editor-in-cheif...  this FF run occurred when Marvel tried having NO single chief, and Gruenwald was the editor-in-chief for the FF book at the time. 

And lastly, MJ smoking is a character weakness, and there is nothing at all weak about DeFalco's handling of Sue's character and Sue's journey through this run...  she's been nothing but strong, even absorbing Malice intentionally rather than being beaten by or submitting or being victim to her.  Subby couldn't get her out of his dreams, and even Ben and Scott were pining for her!

[Steve Raker]

Tons of praise to everybody, a great episode.

Kiddo Besenyodi was great.  I had a crud day at work, he gave me the only smile I had all day. 

Steve, you've really got me wanting to read the Defalco run on FF now, you've sold me.  I think my shop has some of that in the 50 cent bins, I'll see what I can find (I already got most of the early Simonson run you mentioned a few weeks back).    And good luck with your kiddo!

Thanks, thanks, and thanks!!