Today I Hack Slashed my pull list.

[steve bryant]

What the difference between a Marvel and DC book at $3.99 compared to a Boom or IDW book at $3.99?  Is it because Boom and IDW are smaller that makes the price increase acceptable?  The last time I checked, Unknown, Unthinkable, Irredemable, The GI Joe Line and Transformers are all 22 pages at $3.99.  There are also quite a few Image books that are sold for either $3.50 or $3.99 (like Proof for example).

Here's an informative piece about the economics of small press publishing (primarily creator-owned material; the licensed stuff doesn't apply and is a whole different set of costs). I have firsthand confirmation that the author really knows his stuff. However, since the following post was written, the per-issue print cost has risen to closer to 70¢ per-unit than the 50¢ per unit in the post.

http://www.thecomicforums.com/forum2//index.php?showtopic=136033&hl=economics

[Doug!]

Here's an informative piece about the economics of small press publishing (primarily creator-owned material; the licensed stuff doesn't apply and is a whole different set of costs). I have firsthand confirmation that the author really knows his stuff. However, since the following post was written, the per-issue print cost has risen to closer to 70¢ per-unit than the 50¢ per unit in the post.

http://www.thecomicforums.com/forum2//index.php?showtopic=136033&hl=economics

I completely understand that and I've read that particular post before (god I hate that guy  ).  What I took umbrage with was the over-all generalization that anyone who complains that Marvel has raised the priced to $3.99 on their top tier titles but continues to support the second tier titles at $2.99 are hypocrites.  My whole argument that when people say "I'm taking a hard line at the $3.99 price point by not buying any of those books and anyone who does is an idiot" needs to take a good hard long look at some of the indy titles they are buying and stop making generalizations about what other people buy.

Also, Boom and IDW are bigger than Ape (and other small publishers) and a Mark Waid book will still sell at a decent rate.  Why does Irredeemable and Unthinkable get a pass?  That's my question.

Also, in the spirit of openness and transparency; I buy both of Waid's books through Boom!, I buy the entire GI Joe line from IDW, I buy a couple more books from IDW (exact names escape me), I buy Phonogram, I buy Echo (which I think is $3.50), and a bunch more indy titles that are over $2.99.

[evaD]

Doug, while I'm not involved in this particular argument, I hope you don't mind my throwing my 2 cents in. I think that in this case, size does matter. Marvel (and DC)prints and sells a whole lot more than any of the other companies you mention. Traditionally it's been the indy books that lead the price increases because the profit margin is smaller.

That said, I don't want you to think I'm jumping on you, calling you a hypocrite. I'm not.

[Kenney]

Do what thou wilt, buy what thou wilt, and read what thou wilt. 

 

[steve bryant]

I completely understand that and I've read that particular post before (god I hate that guy  ).  What I took umbrage with was the over-all generalization that anyone who complains that Marvel has raised the priced to $3.99 on their top tier titles but continues to support the second tier titles at $2.99 are hypocrites.  My whole argument that when people say "I'm taking a hard line at the $3.99 price point by not buying any of those books and anyone who does is an idiot" needs to take a good hard long look at some of the indy titles they are buying and stop making generalizations about what other people buy.

I know where you're coming from. I agree, largely, with your points. I also try to not rail on people's choices of what they buy.

However, we may be talking about publishers that are larger than Ape, but the difference in numbers isn't as wide as you may think.

I don't have numbers for Irredeemable and Unthinkable yet. But in your earlier post, you had mentioned Proof, as an example of a $3.50 book.

Let's do a quick overview of the economics of an issue of Proof:

Per-issue price that book is sold to Diamond: $1.22 ($3.50 cov price x 35%)
Sales for Proof #18: 2,587*
Total dollars earned through Diamond on preorders for issue #18: $3,156.14

Costs to the creators:
Publisher's fee: Image takes a flat $2,500 for every book they sell, regardless of if it sells 100 copies or 100,000 copies.

Print cost: Image is a larger publisher, so they would have a smaller per-unit cost than my example, so here are the costs to print a 3,000 quantity:

20¢/unit: $600
30¢/unit: $900
40¢/unit: $1,200
50¢/unit: $1,500

In this example, the only way that the creative team is breaking even on preorders is if they're getting the books printed for 20¢ a unit—and I'm not sure that anyone is getting that price (except for maybe Marvel and DC).

If the Proof team charged a cover price of $2.99, their sale price to Diamond would be $1.05 per-unit, which would be a loss regardless of how cheaply the book is being printed.

Again, I don't disagree with you about people examining why they get angry about one book's cover price and not another. And I also don't have any numbers on how the IDW licensing costs and printing costs are structured, so I'm not help with how they fit into the equation.

* http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2009/2009-03.html

[Doug!]

I just want to make this clear, I'm not saying it's wrong for Indy creators to charge more than $2.99 for a book (Proof might have been a bad example because it's a great book that not enough people are buying).  There is a huge discrepancy between the number of books that marvel prints and the number of books that an image team will print and because of the way economies of scale work, the indy guys are going to pay more.  My Mark Waid example won't totally pan out until we have order numbers from Boom for April and May (so we can make a better comparison to a book like R.E.B.E.L.S.).

My biggest sticking point is the prevailing opinion that only buying indy titles will somehow fix the pricing issue.  Yes, Marvel has completely fucked up any communication about this.  Yes, the price jump is unfair to the consumer.  Yes, comic fans should be hurt by all of this.

My thing is that there are multiple ways to go about making a statement and belittling other comic fans isn't a good way of going about it.  Sure, you can refuse to purchase any of their books in protest.  You could also only buy the books that remain at the lower price point.  Give those books a sales bump and see if that gets the message across (and if the price goes up, drop it like a hot rock).

You could also send a printed letter addressed to the executive that Wood was able to talk to explaining everything that's been said in this thread.  A well thought out letter addressed to a real person has a better chance of making an impact than a message board post.  If enough people sent a letter then maybe then someone who is like a bawse would notice (a letter writing campaign saved Jericho and Star Trek back in the day).

In conclusion, by what YOU WANT to buy regardless of price.  Enjoy what you enjoy.  Don't worry about the "state of the industry" it's not that important in the grand scheme of things (there will always be comics).  But please don't begrudge other people for doing the same thing.  It's not fair to them and hurts any feelings of community we might have.

[S. Earl]

There are a few threads about this subject but this one is getting the bump.

I recently looked at what I have read in the last two months, what I have back logged and haven't read for months, and finally said enough was enough. I'm lighting money on fire and frankly I can't believe I let it go this long. Comics are much more fulfilling when you are reading them because they are lighting a fire inside you and not because you are just trying to keep up with a storyline. I don't see every movie with every actor I like at the theater, why must I not only rush out to get something by a writer/artist I like the day it comes out - but more often then not pay for it three months in advance!? Madness.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but it feels good to see the light. I have a back log of books at home, and I know what's on my LCS list and on my next two DCBS orders are actually all books I'm up to date on, not just growing the dusty stack of unreads.

Sadly it took some unexpected dental work to help me make this jump.

[Kenney]

S. Earl, I think a lot of folks could benefit for parring down their reading lists a bit. Spreading yourself thin can really prohibit true focus and appreciation of books.

[mguy1977]

I dropped Amazing & Uncanny from my pulllist both $3.99 a while back w/ no regrets.  The only core titles for Marvel me is REAL Fantastic Four #600 (yea I preordered it), FF (2.0) & Daredevil plus Criminal minis ($3.50 in issue plus later on in the big fat HC).  I look forward to reading Fatale in January & giving the series a chance.  Usagi is worth every penny because I get so much enjoyment from it.  Action Comics (when it isn't back matter) & All Star Western over at DC meeting the high threshold of being worthy at $3.99 in my opinion.  Slashing your pull list is healthy as a consumer.  I dropped Superboy & Flash after the 2nd issue w/ Stormwatch & Wonder Woman after their 1st. 

Matthew 

[Jeremy G]

Glad to see this thread got bumped. I used to be Mr. OneTwo. Then I left the forum and came back under my regular name.

I still don't buy many Marvel books. I do still pick up Daredevil. How can you not?

If I see books in the dollar or fifty cent bin I will pick them up like Ghost Rider,Heroes for Hire,and T-Bolts.

Hell,I haven't read any of Fear Itself,don't even really know what its about.

I did start purchasing a lot more indy books. Loved Girls,The Sword,Proof,Strangers in Paradise, bought a crap load of books that had anything in it from Gary Panter.

I do hope one day with digital I can start buying more Marvel at a cheaper price.

[Former Poet Laureate]

I dropped a few DC titles (Action among them), just so I can read them digitally for cheaper. The $3.99 big two book is very hard for me to justify. I'm not a huge pre-order single issues guy, so I like to get Marvel stuff in the HC's they put out - will be at least 35% off of ordered online. Otherwise, I wait for sales at the LCS for singles - gonna grab some stuff this weekend that way. Once you figure you can wait for stuff, and save major $$$$, it ain't hard to cut the pull list.