GAME OF THRONES + Season 3

[Dave Faust]

Margaery looked good in this episode. 

And Yoren was a beast!

Me gusta.

[Felt Martin]

Me gusta.

mucho!

Great episode I thought.

[the other mike]

love the scene with tyrion leaving the extra coin for the hooker. the embarrassed/apologetic look on his face was priceless.

also that scene with theon and balon. "you just gave me away...". very powerful.

and needless to say everything with yoren... utterly bad ASS. and we get the beginnings of arya's mantra/prayer.


-mike

[Kenney]

This show is so dense and satisfying.

[Felt Martin]

Yeah, all day I've been remembering another thing that happened in the episode.

This was the first explicit mention that Bran might have something supernatural going on wasn't it?
It sort of went unnoticed amongst everything else!

[the other mike]

as things currently stand (as of season 2 episode 3), and not counting books, which would-be king would make the BEST king? the guy who would have the most positive effect on westros (in terms of peace and prosperity and general happiness of the citizens)?

and conversely, who would be the worst king with the most negative effects?

(your choices would be jeoffrey, robb, stannis, renly. i suppose you can add dany and mance rayder to stir up the pot.)

personally, i think robb is not the best nor jeoffrey the worst.


-mike

[Jordan]

I've read all the books, so I can't COMPLETELY divorce those from my thoughts, but I'll try.  This is also off the top of my head.

Hmmm.... I think that Joffrey would be the worst.  he's only going to get worse as he gets older and realizes more and more of his power.  Theoretically his relatives could control or brake him, but I don't see that lasting very long.

Besides being popular and well liked, I don't know that much about Renly.  I don't know if he is an effective ruler or how fair or just he is.  I also don't know if he would really be able to hold power for a long time, to really bring the peace.

Stannis is made of iron, and I have no doubt he would create a peace made of iron.  However, he also is introducing a new religion to the land, and I don't see the Church or many of the citizens of Westeros taking that very lightly; his rule would be plagued by religious conflict, wars and rebellion.

Robb seems the best choice, except for his age and experience.  He's been successful only on the battlefield

And as we will see, he makes a HUGE political error

.  But with his mother at his side, and the right alliances, I could see him being a very good king.  It depends how much of the greatness of his father he has in him and how much he is willing to listen to his mother and other advisors whom are not so... "knightly."

Dany is much the same as Robb; full of potential but we really don't know.  She has the blood and dragons to be accepted by most of the people, and she has capable advisors, so I think she could rule effectively.  I also think she would ease some of the limits and traditions that keep the poor down and bring them a little bit of justice.  

In terms of effectiveness and progressiveness, Mance could be the best choice.  He could knock down a lot of the stupider societal aspects of Westeros; birthright/birthplace limiting your station, break down some of the caste system, stuff like that.  But the nobles would simply not have him.  He would have to make an unholy alliance with the likes of the Lannisters or Renly's family, and sell a lot of his appeal simply for peace.  And probably kill half the nobility.  

If the question is "peace, prosperity and general happiness of the CITIZENS" I would pick either Dany or Robb.  They have the blood and respect for it, and I think they have it him to rise to the occasion.  The only problem is, as we know, in the Game of Thrones, you have have to want it.  You have to play the game; you have to have knives in the dark, and I don't know if they are willing to play the game the way you have too.

If I could pick anybody in the books, based on skill or pure ability to rule, it's Tyrion Lannister or Jon Snow.  

[elemental]

Loved the epsiode as always, very well done and the manged to get a lot of the story crammed into one episode.

Wow the casting of Margaery Tyrell is a big departure from the books and I cant imagine that this wont change the nature of her character and some of the future storylines. I have no problem treating them as seperate products but this change was suprising, in many cases i think the show has done some elements better for example this week where Theon was struggling with his loyalty to Pike and his loyalty to winterfell was far better on screen.

Great show and I cant wait for the next episode

[Kenney]

I have no problem treating them as seperate products but this change was suprising, in many cases i think the show has done some elements better for example this week where Theon was struggling with his loyalty to Pike and his loyalty to winterfell was far better on screen.

In some feedback to the current episode some people were saying that's exactly how they read Theon. Maybe it wasn't explicitly stated in the books, but some readers got that from the character. I haven't got that far, but I doubt I would have been one of them, so I cannot imagine that scene not being present in the book. It makes Theon much easier to relate to. His motivations are especially easy to understand in this world that places fatherhood on the utmost highest of pedestals.

What I wonder is how the show is going to influence Martin's future writings. I don't see how the show can't inform what he does going forward in some ways, be they minor or major.

Last season I don't feel like we've gone episodes without seeing any characters, but this season seems to switch off plot threads episode to episode. No Dany, Robb, or Stannis this ep, no Arya 2 eps ago. I wonder if that will get more pronounced in future seasons.

[elemental]

In some feedback to the current episode some people were saying that's exactly how they read Theon. Maybe it wasn't explicitly stated in the books, but some readers got that from the character. I haven't got that far, but I doubt I would have been one of them, so I cannot imagine that scene not being present in the book. It makes Theon much easier to relate to. His motivations are especially easy to understand in this world that places fatherhood on the utmost highest of pedestals.

The scene with the writing of the letter then burning it is new and not in the book at all. I agree it works in the show for all the reasons you have stated.

[Wood]

Wow.

The decision to

overtly bring Renlys homosexuality into the mix and then have Margaery not only vocalize her acknowledgment but to offer to share her bed with here brother was a MAJOR departure from the books.

[elemental]

Wow.

The decision to

overtly bring Renlys homosexuality into the mix and then have Margaery not only vocalize her acknowledgment but to offer to share her bed with here brother was a MAJOR departure from the books.

Especially as a lot of Margaerys upcoming story centres around her apparent innocence, she appeared far from innocent in those scenes and by the way shes very understanding

[Wood]

Especially as a lot of Margaerys upcoming story centres around her apparent innocence, she appeared far from innocent in those scenes and by the way shes very understanding

Agreed.

It seems like the TV producers have made the conscious choice to SHOW more than INFER. Which is a logical option in a visual medium, whereas the prose lends itself more to imagination and inference.

[Greg Leclair (greg1ca)]

If you did not see last week's Saturday Night Live, they had a hilarious pre-recorded "behind the scenes of The Game of Thrones" bit.  I am sure you can gind it on NBC.com or Hulu or some such. Very funny
 

[S. Earl]

It seems like the TV producers have made the conscious choice to SHOW more than INFER. Which is a logical option in a visual medium, whereas the prose lends itself more to imagination and inference.

And in the case of Theon, showing instead of inferring will far better explain why some scenes happen later in the season. The discussions between he and his father, and the scene with the Damphair were great choices.

As far as

Margery goes. I'm pretty sure that it is explained later the entire Martel family isn't one to trifle with, and Margery isn't as innocent as she seems. I felt that she was still kept in character with the additions

By far was my favorite episode of the season, right behind the finale of Season 1 in quality. The Yoren/Arya chat alone did it for me.

[Felt Martin]

Wow.

The decision to

overtly bring Renlys homosexuality into the mix and then have Margaery not only vocalize her acknowledgment but to offer to share her bed with here brother was a MAJOR departure from the books.

Superb scene. A perfect example of how they are subverting the genre with this series.

[Felt Martin]

as things currently stand (as of season 2 episode 3), and not counting books, which would-be king would make the BEST king? the guy who would have the most positive effect on westros (in terms of peace and prosperity and general happiness of the citizens)?

and conversely, who would be the worst king with the most negative effects?

(your choices would be jeoffrey, robb, stannis, renly. i suppose you can add dany and mance rayder to stir up the pot.)

personally, i think robb is not the best nor jeoffrey the worst.


-mike

At this stage I'd have to go for Robb as the best candidate and of course Joffrey as the worst.
I'm very interested in hearing you think would be worse than that little sh*t!

[Stupendous Man]

Agreed.

It seems like the TV producers have made the conscious choice to SHOW more than INFER. Which is a logical option in a visual medium, whereas the prose lends itself more to imagination and inference.

They kind of have to. The books are limited in that we only see what the viewpoint characters see. If they want scenes between Renly and Loras or Renly and Maergery they have to be invented whole cloth. At the same time though, by the very narrative structure of the books, we don't know for a fact that these things didn't actually take place.

Which is all just a very circuitous way of saying that I'm not sure that Maergery's character has been changed all that much from the books. In the books she's very much an enigma. In the show we're just seeing more of her.

[Wood]

They kind of have to. The books are limited in that we only see what the viewpoint characters see. If they want scenes between Renly and Loras or Renly and Maergery they have to be invented whole cloth. At the same time though, by the very narrative structure of the books, we don't know for a fact that these things didn't actually take place.

Which is all just a very circuitous way of saying that I'm not sure that Maergery's character has been changed all that much from the books. In the books she's very much an enigma. In the show we're just seeing more of her.

I think you have a great point. Does Martin have a big role in the scripting of the show? I don't know the answer but assumed he did since they're obviously committed to sticking to all of the MAJOR points of the books.

[Stupendous Man]

I think you have a great point. Does Martin have a big role in the scripting of the show? I don't know the answer but assumed he did since they're obviously committed to sticking to all of the MAJOR points of the books.

He's a producer and writes one episode per season. So he's definitely involved.

He's also a veteran of TV writing, so he gets that things can, must, and do change in the process of adapting any material to the screen.