11 O'Clock Comics Episode 11

[VinceB]

Synchronicity abounds in our 11-11-11 episode as we tread the murky waters of event pricing, comic buyers' reluctance to try independent titles, underground visionary Rory Hayes and Where Demented Wented, Alex Ross and Frank Santoro, Tommy Lee Edwards, Charlatan Ball from Image, the Filipino Invasion, Final Crisis: Requiem, Camelot 3000, the 11 O'Clock Comics Challenge, listener email, and much more! Google Max Toy Company!

Direct Link

Titles in the 11 O'Clock Challenge:

* Charlatan Ball (Image)
* Spooks (Devil's Due)
* Four Eyes (Image)
* Locke & Key (IDW)
* Savage (Image)
* B.P.R.D./Hellboy Universe (Dark Horse)
* The Circle (Image)
* Captain Britain and MI 13 (Marvel  )
* Grendel Universe (Dark Horse)

[Mike Sims]

Sweet!!!  I now have a reason to look forward to work tomorrow!

[AZN_FIST]

downloading b4 I go to sleep...or not lol.

[AZN_FIST]

THANKS SO FRIGGIN MUCH FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS!!! Man, I can't thank you dudes enough. While I know it was difficult to give a straight answer on the Kirby q's, that video someone posted on another thread answered every question I ever had. Call this a fuckin Morrison moment, but I had a super enlightenment with Kirby, like I finally got handed with a powerful piece of knowledge. ..and now I'm gonna stop lol.

Wood, Vince, I'll see the link tomorrow but you have no idea how much it's making me get my ass off (so to speak) and get in touch with my Filipino end on the art in comics...I'm...I'm just grateful.

Chris, you're not the only one. I remember two weeks ago, I went and bought Thor #9, 1985# 2, Cap# 39, Iron Fist # 16 and FC # 2...and I nearly paid $20 cdn! WTF?! I don't mean to be bitchin tons either but a month ago, those same 5 titles rounded to at least 15 bucks and I felt like I got duped. I don't think it's the owner (I hope not at least) but Marvel is not working out for me anymore, if this is the shit they continue to play around with....rant. Sorry

Bright side tho, Chris, get Arsenic Lullaby if you can...it's like Chicken Soup with the darkest form of comedy. Should you feel like crap, or be pissed at an unnamed person that I would've gladly done something to...pull it out, and shut the thinking caps. You'll be laughing like mad. lol.

I'll wait on MI:13 on trade. Congratulations once again gentlemen. The new blame for delays and everything is

MATTHEW GUHHH

not Diamond lol.

[Equinox]

Excellent, can't wait to listen to it tomorrow!   

[Dain]

Guys, I listened to this episode twice. I am an 11o'clock comics freak.  I love to hear you guys get so riled up.  Many topics were discussed.

The price of comic books: I personally wouldn't pay more than 4 bucks for a 32 page comic book.  Hopefully in the next two years 5 bucks will be the price cap on comics.  I started buying comics when they were only 75 cents. Gah! And they wonder why kids aren't buying comics these days.

Alex Ross (comics killer): I couldn't disagree with Vince B. more.  Anyone who has gone to art school (like I unfortunately did) knows that reference material is a completely appropriate tool for artists.  Every artist uses reference material (whether it is a freeze frame from Dog Day Afternoon or a Playboy pictorial).  If anything, tracing photos cut out of US WEEKLY or People is the death of comics.  Not everybody has the imagination of Jack Kirby or Buscema (although they did rely on stock poses).  Come on Vince, you know its true.

Geez what else?  Olives stuffed with bleu cheese in a drink?  Okay I'll buy that. But I draw the line at BACON in my gin and tonic (never drink GIN!). 

Just want to let you know I love listening to you guys talk. As pitiful as it sounds, its like having a bunch of friends in my apartment talking about comics and I am right there with you.

Nuff' said. Goodnight!

[Chris]

I had a blast recording this one.

[Jefferson]

 
 Joey Ramone! So gooood so far!

[Jefferson]

 See the magic of Acala, get the Dark Horse SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN Vol. 1...swim in the illustrious glory!!

[VinceB]

Alex Ross (comics killer): I couldn't disagree with Vince B. more.  Anyone who has gone to art school (like I unfortunately did) knows that reference material is a completely appropriate tool for artists.  Every artist uses reference material (whether it is a freeze frame from Dog Day Afternoon or a Playboy pictorial).  If anything, tracing photos cut out of US WEEKLY or People is the death of comics.  Not everybody has the imagination of Jack Kirby or Buscema (although they did rely on stock poses).  Come on Vince, you know its true.

As another one of those fools with a degree in art, I agree with you on all of the points above. However, I never said reference was BAD. On the contrary, reference material is a necessity for most artists. The point of the discussion (and Santoro's piece) is that strict adherence to the reference material has a way of sucking the vitality and immediacy out of an image. Used as a guideline, a point from which to base your drawing, fine. The problems arise, however, when reference material becomes a BLUEPRINT which not only guides the artist's hand, but RESTRAINS it.

Reference material = good.
Over-reliance on same = BAD.

[darrell]

Im listening right now

[Chad (Grilled Cheese Sandwich)]

Yeah...it's 11 O'Clock Comics Day, it's 11 O'clock Comics Day!!!!!

[evaD]

As another one of those fools with a degree in art, I agree with you on all of the points above. However, I never said reference was BAD. On the contrary, reference material is a necessity for most artists. The point of the discussion (and Santoro's piece) is that strict adherence to the reference material has a way of sucking the vitality and immediacy out of an image. Used as a guideline, a point from which to base your drawing, fine. The problems arise, however, when reference material becomes a BLUEPRINT which not only guides the artist's hand, but RESTRAINS it.

Reference material = good.
Over-reliance on same = BAD.

I'll chime in here, too. If a viewer can figure out what your reference was by looking at your image and comparing it ot the original source, that shows a certain degree of laziness, lack of imagination, and opens you up to copyright infringement lawsuits. If you want to be technical about it, we're not talking about reference material in some of these cases, we're talking about out right copying and that is illegal. Granted it's not illegal in a "ow, you just shot me" kinda way, but it is akin to plagiarism and does break copyright law. If the shoe were on the other foot and this kind of thing happened to one of these companies or artists, how many of them would be threatening lawsuit? And I'm not talking about fan art where there is little or no money being made. The whole thing is shady.

[VinceB]

If you want to be technical about it, we're not talking about reference material in some of these cases, we're talking about out right copying and that is illegal. Granted it's not illegal in a "ow, you just shot me" kinda way, but it is akin to plagiarism and does break copyright law.

Actually, no, we're not. We're talking about the over-reliance of Ross (and others of his ilk) on reference material to the point where it squelches the vitality of his work. Ross creates his own reference material using models dressed in the appropriate costumes, so the risk of infringing on copyrighted images is nonexistent.

[Matt Kramer]

I love that Joey Ramone song.  Makes me glad that Sarah bought the Gilmore Girls soundtrack!   

[Wood]

I had a blast recording this episode. We brought the HEAT!

One thing I forgot to add in the discussion re: Ross and art styles. Realistically, how many artists in the business even attempt to duplicate Ross' stayle? He's a realistic painter. I can't think of many. As I think through the 100+ monthlies I order each month, in my mind I'm seeing a massive disparity in styles. From photorealism to cartoony to abstract and everything in between. I would argue we have as diverse a set of artists in the business now as we ever did. So I'm really not getting Santoro's point at all.

[Jefferson]

I love that Joey Ramone song.  Makes me glad that Sarah bought the Gilmore Girls soundtrack!   

If you love that, Check out Joey's solo record "Don't Worry About Me",the record this gem sprung forth from. Great, Great, Great!

[VinceB]

So I'm really not getting Santoro's point at all.

*sigh*

[zack kruse]

huzzah! downloading now!

[Matt Kramer]

If you love that, Check out Joey's solo record "Don't Worry About Me",the record this gem sprung forth from. Great, Great, Great!

Thanks for the recommendation, Jefferson.  I really need to get my ass listening to more Ramones.  I've been content with Rocket to Russia and haven't really delved outside of that.

On the topic of Alex Ross, I think he's one hell of a painter and makes some awesome, iconic images, but I think he's a shitty sequential artist.  That doesn't mean that I love my JSA poster on my wall or books like Kingdom Come any less.