11 O'Clock Comics Episode 87

[Chris]

You guys are right. Comics are no different than they were 50 years ago.
 

[Wood]

You guys are right. Comics are no different than they were 50 years ago.
 

I'm with Chris...y'all are confusing what he (and I) said. He didn't say old comics aren't great, he said old comics were great for the time, but that same dialog and plotting wouldn't hold up today. Passage of time. Kind of like arguing if we're all going to die someday.

[David]

You guys are right. Comics are no different than they were 50 years ago.

It's opposite day!!!

And the part of Vince will be played by Chris.

[Farrell]

You guys are right. Comics are no different than they were 50 years ago.
 

Exactly.  Chew would have been a huge hit in the 1950's. 

[Wood]

Exactly.  Chew would have been a huge hit in the 1950's. 

Can we characterize it as a huge hit in 2009?  I think more of "niche fave" fits the bill.

[Farrell]

Can we characterize it as a huge hit in 2009?  I think more of "niche fave" fits the bill.

I was just picturing the average person's horrified reaction to the book in 1950.  "Hit" in a cultural sense, rather than a financial one, if that makes any sense.

Although, now that you mention it, I think Chew probably does qualify as a hit by 2009 standards, which tells you more about the state of the current market than it does the book itself.   

[VinceB]

And the part of Vince will be played by Chris.

Dude, I am NOT passive/aggressive. 

[NeverWanderer (Joey Cruz)]

I think there's a misunderstanding in what Chris and Wood are saying when they call modern comics more "sophisticated." (and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm mistaken)

Sure, the silver age books still dealt with lofty concepts and subject matter, but their *method* of handling those matters has become much more sophisticated. The craft has become more refined, even if imaginations are just as lively as they've always been.

[Julian Lytle]

That part of the show was killing me, like pain in my chest. I don't see comics today as more sophisticated (at times I see them as boring) they are just different. It's like music, hell those type of comics will comeback be it as an homage or just tastes. I don't think future comics will be more sophisticated than the one we read now.

But the one thing that the silver age did have over today's comics are CONCEPTS. Those Stan The Man and Jack The King FF comics are just more dope than most of today's. They were making new stuff. No road was there. As much as I know you all are reading the current spidey, I can't do it. I've read that 20 something single spidey, that bores me.

There is new hottness though, but it really doesn't sell alot, but it can still be successful.


Oh and them 80s X-men comic is fire-FIRE.

[Greg Leclair (greg1ca)]

Darnit, I hate it when I when i need to wait to listen to the podcast on the weekend, but all the good debate occurs on the boards in the meantime.

Couple more hours and I am on vacation and can get to listening the podcast, reading my Regina list and have my own version of the drink roll call 

[Paul]

I understand that some people are getting defensive over much loved comics of yesteryear, and I get it, Hell, I'll always stick up for them, but I think the whole argument overlooks the point.  Better and sophisticated are two completely different things.

Are comics today more sophisticated?  Yes.  Does that make them better?  Not necessarily.

It all comes down to taste, but like Chris said, the art of scripting the modern day comic IS much more sophisticated.  First, they actually write a script.  In the Stan and Jack day, it was a plot that was discussed, but little more than an outline, drawn and then dialogued. A guy like Bendis writes the full script, passes it to the artist, who adds their interpretation, and then when the art comes back, Bendis rewrites the dialogue, taking the artist's interpretation into the process.

There's no doubt that the process is more sophisticated.  Are the comics better or worse for it, well, that's where fan taste comes in.  I have a great love for Silver Age Superman and Batman stories, I especially love the early Legion stories, and enjoy them all for what they were, but I don't for a second kid myself that this is reflective of a modern age, or that the average comic reader is going to enjoy them the way I do, especially since much of that enjoyment ties into the nostalgia of reading them as a kid.

[Paul]

Couple more hours and I am on vacation and can get to listening the podcast, reading my Regina list and have my own version of the drink roll call 

Ditto on all fronts, although I just decided vacation starts now!

[bean6344]

In other news: The sky is blue.

The sky appears to be blue as perceived by the human eye.
 
So it's all about individual perceptions.
 
Bean

[bean6344]

The good:
As of right now, 9 days in a row of no work for me.

The better:
I returned home to find my new Bo Hampton page of original Moon Knight art waiting for me.

The best:
Another great podcast!

Your talk about surplus stories brought back memories of one of my favorite early/mid 80's comics.

It was a showcase anthology that featured surplus stories that just deserved to see the light of day.  Many of the stories were started by one artist to be finished by another and ran multiple issues.  Some of them were short back up sized tales packed back to back to fill out an issue.  They always had great art on the front and back covers.
Some early issues featured art Michael Golden, Paul Smith, Frank Miller, George Perez, Art Adams, Marshall Rogers,  Charles Vess, Kevin Nowlan, etc., etc. etc.

Any guesses?

What a classic.
Bean

[Dotanuki]

I completely agree with ya Wood re: Daytripper #1. The story was excellent and tied to an excellent, moody view of...Rio? Sao Paulo? I have now managed to forget which Brazilian city the story is placed in...I'll just have to read it again. It's rare that I come across a comic I look forward to re-reading within a day. I have high hopes for the forthcoming eleven issues.

[wordballoon]

I love the "i'm taking my ball and going home"  type of posts, when listeners may disagree with what we hear on an episode.  

again I think there's an oversimplification going on, when anyone says, "comics were less sophisticated." even 50 years ago, than today.

What i always say comparing today's era to books going back to even the golden age is, there have always been well written /drawn books in literally every era of american comics, all the way back to the 1930's, but today there are more well written and drawn monthly books coming out at the same time.

Strip Guys Like  Cannif Foster and Raymond wrote and drew stories that hold up quite well,  Add guys like Eisner,Kubert, Kahnigher, Broome, Heath and Kane to the equation too. What about the EC guys, or the Warren era creators?

and yes Virginia ( Chris), I do think that Stan & Jack also wrote specific stories that do still work with today's audience, hokey dialogue and all.

they also wrote some trite monthlies that had to come out, no matter what the quality, and yes those stories may not hold up, but they were working under much different circumstances than today's creators. (pretty sure Wood said this same thing) .

I just think that it sounds a little elitist to make such blanket statements about the un-sophisticated silver age stories, as I heard it in this week's conversation.

[Dave Faust]

Goddamn I want to read that Injury issue. Blue Oyster Cult, Carl Sagan talking about alien metal... Fuck, that book sounds like it was written for me.

[Dotanuki]

Goddamn I want to read that Injury issue. Blue Oyster Cult, Carl Sagan talking about alien metal... Fuck, that book sounds like it was written for me.

I just listened to that section...Vince's got me geeked out on it too 

The image of Sagan listening to "Supernauht" on a Walkman...can't get it out of my head...

[InspectorSpacetime]

Number Crunching: X-Factor #200
Price: $4.99

Comic page count: 74

What? Really? Yes

How much original comic material: 52. They reprint Madrox #1 as well.

Splash pages? 6

That’s still pretty good. So what’s that per page? 9 1/2 cents a page.

How much was Dark Avengers per page, also out this week? Over 18 cents a page.

Additional pages dedicated to every X-Factor cover? 2

Additional pages from the Marvel Handbook: 17

How many more times is X-Factor #200 more enjoyable than reading Dark Avengers? 3

Times while reading this you think Peter David should get so much more work at Marvel and DC: 26

Fantastic Four, Spider-Man or X-Men?: Any of ‘em.

Comics you enjoyed more than X-Factor #200 this week. 0

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2009/12/18/number-crunching-x-factor-200/

[Stupendous Man]

I think more important than sophistication or anything like that silver age books were just written in a style that fit the day.  Just as today's books are written in a style that fits today.  Not better, not worse, just different.  Also, you could look at books from the 70s, 80s, or 90s and see styles that seem just as diametrically opposed.  At the end of the day, a comic written earnestly will ring true, no matter the age, era, or style.

Truth be told though.  I think the early Spider-Man issues hold up really well.