11 O'Clock Comics Episode 87

[Farrell]

There's a difference between writing that no longer matches our modern sensibilities ("Golly gee, Mary, I dunno.  Ma's going to be awfully sore if I'm late.) and bad writing.  Bad writing means, among other things,  that characters act without logic or consistency, plots threads are created and fizzle without reason, endings come out of the blue, etc.  There's no shortage of bad writing now, even if the language sounds "right" to our 21st century ears.  And there was LOTS of bad writing in comics 20 and 30 and 40 years ago.  Overall, I would agree with Chris that there was more bad writing then, most likely a product of the system of producing comics and their intended audience (like Wood said) than any lack of talent from the individuals who produced them.  Although I would say that comics today have attracted more writers with genuine writing talent, not just great imaginations, as the standards have risen.  

[Pat Loika]

Okay, who had four pages in the How Long Before Darrell Brings Up $3.99 pool?

I wouldve been pissed if I had to pay 3.99 for his 2 cents worth of posting.

P.

[Farrell]

Okay, who had four pages in the How Long Before Darrell Brings Up $3.99 pool?

 

I had post #79!  Really!  I just leaned over and told somebody that.  You can ask them!  

[darrell]

 

[David]

You can ask them!  

 

[Chris]

There's a difference between writing that no longer matches our modern sensibilities ("Golly gee, Mary, I dunno.  Ma's going to be awfully sore if I'm late.) and bad writing.  Bad writing means, among other things,  that characters act without logic or consistency, plots threads are created and fizzle without reason, endings come out of the blue, etc.  There's no shortage of bad writing now, even if the language sounds "right" to our 21st century ears.  And there was LOTS of bad writing in comics 20 and 30 and 40 years ago.  Overall, I would agree with Chris that there was more bad writing then, most likely a product of the system of producing comics and their intended audience (like Wood said) than any lack of talent from the individuals who produced them.  Although I would say that comics today have attracted more writers with genuine writing talent, not just great imaginations, as the standards have risen.  

Bingo.
Good dialog doesn't = good writing. Bad or "less sophisticated" dialog doesn't = bad writing either.

I do think however that scripting has become a much more important and developed part of the medium.

[VinceB]

What is the constant in this classic vs. contemporary debate? What is the static, unchanging element in the midst of the passage of time and countless pairs of eyes? THE ART. To impose benchmarks based on both the passage of time and change on something that does not and CAN NOT change is a demand the art can NEVER MEET. You either accept the art on its own terms or you don't.

[Chris]

Art is 1/2 of the medium.

[VinceB]

Art is 1/2 of the medium.

Writing is art. Art is 100% of the medium.

[David]

Writing is art. Art is 100% of the medium.

 

[Farrell]

Writing is art. Art is 100% of the medium.

But...but..what about Ultimatum?  It's maybe 32%, if that. 

[Farrell]

What is the constant in this classic vs. contemporary debate? What is the static, unchanging element in the midst of the passage of time and countless pairs of eyes? THE ART. To impose benchmarks based on both the passage of time and change on something that does not and CAN NOT change is a demand the art can NEVER MEET. You either accept the art on its own terms or you don't.

Do you think that all contemporary comics writing is equally good?

If not, isn't it possible that the percentage of good writing to bad has changed over time, as the needs and tastes of its audience has changed?

[Chris]

I NEVER said that older comics were bad. All I was getting at is that they (for the most part) are scripted differently now. They're produced for a different audience and if comics were made with the same voice and sensibilities that they were in the Golden, Silver and Bronze age they wouldn't play to today's readers.

[Wood]

Wood, you say you like feet (when talking about busts), but you also like Rob Liefeld/Deadpool. Contradiction?

 

 

[NeverWanderer (Joey Cruz)]

Amalgam (uh-MAL-gum) comic talk!  Dude, I loved those books...

[El Dave]

I'm drafting Darrell onto my fantasy forum team. He consistently produces the most LOLs per Post

[Farrell]

I'm drafting Darrell onto my fantasy forum team. He consistently produces the most LOLs per Post

THAT IS NOT TRUE!! 

[NeverWanderer (Joey Cruz)]

Interesting hearing the Mice Templar opinions. I'm one who loved that book from the very start, and also placed it above Mouse Guard riiiiiight up until Winter 1152 came out. I think Mouse Guard surpassed almost any fantasy book preceding it with that storyline.

[Wood]

Interesting hearing the Mice Templar opinions. I'm one who loved that book from the very start, and also placed it above Mouse Guard riiiiiight up until Winter 1152 came out. I think Mouse Guard surpassed almost any fantasy book preceding it with that storyline.

Glad to hear that. I have to say that I realize art is subjective, but to my mind Mouse Guard is literally on another level that transcends simply being known as a comic, whereas Mice Templar falls well short of that mark. To me MG is among the most accomplished fantasy works of its generation. Hearing Vince say he prefers Templar was akin to how he must feel when I tell him I prefer Liefeld to Ditko.

[Chris]

What is the constant in this classic vs. contemporary debate? What is the static, unchanging element in the midst of the passage of time and countless pairs of eyes? THE ART. To impose benchmarks based on both the passage of time and change on something that does not and CAN NOT change is a demand the art can NEVER MEET. You either accept the art on its own terms or you don't.

On this I "think" we can agree. The art doesn't change. The people do.