11 O'Clock Comics Episode 94

[wordballoon]

Chris, you're the only person I've heard reagrding this rumor say DC was considering a watchmen SEQUEL.

The 12 issue series has a THE END. Every idea that has been considered over the years were all prequels, from computer and role playing games to the current rumor.

as for the naysayers... how did Neil Gaiman do on Miracleman? How about Mark Millar on the Authority? Zander Cannon & Gene Ha on Top 10? all home run stories for me.

sorry IMO no comic property is so precious that only the original creators can do a great job.

I think chris's list of creators shows how interesting the possibilities are.

[Nath S.]

Thanks for catching it! I have to say I'm glad Chris "got it" and laughed, because I was fearful it would be lost in the cacophony of our chatter and go unnoticed.

No, thank you sir!   

[wordballoon]

Not really, at least not in that lock-stock "I work for Disney, so every idea I come up with is owned by Disney automatically" kind of way. The deal was that they would do the book, DC would be the publisher, and then whenever the book eventually went out of print the rights would revert to the authors. Keep in mind that this was in a very different era of comics, when we weren't seeing trades of the last six issues of X-Men every half year... so the expectation was that the book would have a trade paperback that would go through one, maybe two printings, and then the rights would revert. The expectation certainly was not that the book would never go out of print, that the film rights would be sold without the authors' permission, or that there would be a toy line featuring your very own Rorschach action figures.

david, I spoke to dave gibbons, and frankly the original assumption was that he and Moore were making a 12 issue comics book series that had no future beyond it's initial monthly release.

nobody was thinking trade paperbacks, or possible film adaptations until after the story's sucsess, and when producers like Joel Silver came sniffing around.

[David D.]

I thought I posted this much earlier today, but I guess I was on a worse wireless connection than I thought...  Oh well.

I wanted to say, great show, guys, as always.  And as much as my gut feeling is that the Bleedingcool rumor is a bunch of supposition and hot air, I think it has made for some great discussion, on the show and on the forum, so it is at least an interesting idea to explore.

My two cents, for what it's worth, regarding an anthology of creators doing strips about the characters, is that I would put it in terms of a thought experiment--

What if, now controlling the rights to the estate, J.D. Salinger's son (and Captain America actor) Matt Salinger decides to greenlight a book in which today's top authors write their own short stories about Holden Caulfield.  Some write stories where he's younger, some write stories of him as a grown-up phony, etc.  I think trying to tack on such a volume to Watchmen would strike me as unnecessary of a volume.  And, while I completely agree that, at least in the direct market, an all-star anthology would go down easier than a single creative team doing a sequel, I think there are two problems with that idea.  First, I think the sorts of A-list names like the ones named on the show wouldn't cross the virtual, ideological picket line to be party to doing that to Moore and Gibbon's work.  And, even if there was an anthology with all those dream names, those names only have a cache to those of us paying attention in the direct market.  But, as comics fans, we are pretty very accustomed to changing creative teams, reboots, retellings of the same story across various continuity or Elseworlds, etc.  That is such a big part of the superhero genre, that we are very used to it.  But I don't know that those overwhelming numbers of people who read Watchmen, and only Watchmen, actually want more. 

I think a lot of the people who don't read comics but did read Watchmen (and I think the numbers would bear out that is not a small number) may have in part found it appealing in its completeness.  Unlike the confusing, ever-changing and spread out world of so many other comics, you can just hand someone that book and it is the whole deal, just like so many other great novels.  It is that entry point.  That one essential graphic novel for those who have never read anything else made of comics.  And, to that crowd, they read that book.  And I don't know how appealing another book by different people actually is.  In the author-centric book world, I think the name on the cover (as well as how things are talked of in reviews, lists and press) matters.  Heck, just look at the size of the author names in the bookstore-editions of various Marvel and DC books.  I think the book market readership would see a Watchmen sequel, or anthology of prequel stories, as a book by other people.  So-and-so's Scarlett to Mitchell's Gone With the Wind, to use David's example, and I think it would be received as poorly.  And, instead of leaving Watchmen alone as that standout, crossover success of comics-as-masterpiece, you end up crowding the shelves with some other volume that reminds skeptical bookstore reader that, 'Oh, right, comics are this never ending superhero soap opera where people keep dying and coming back to life, nothing ever ends and nothing matters."   

Which is why my gut tells me that this rumor is not going to turn out to be true.  I just don't think the bad press and PR is worth creating something that, sure, will be controversial and would have a lot of direct market sales by the curious, but I just don't see having a chance at having the sort of bookstore success that the real Watchmen book has had.  And, while of course I know anything they do won't affect my books on the shelf or my singles in the box, I do think there is a way in which publishing more Watchmen comics could actually dilute the brand of Watchmen as that single, perfect book.  And why risk that, when that book itself has continued to sell and sell? 

[wordballoon]

I hear you David, but I see no "risk" to the popularity of the original work. Scarlett didn't diminish Gone With The Wind, the few poor Post Fleming James Bond books haven't diminished the original novels, etc.

It's the infamous Raymond Chandler response to his dinner guests, who cried "isn't it a shame , what hollywood has done to your books."

Chandler walked them to his study,  filled with a shelf of 1st edition copies of his novels

"They're right there, and they are fine."

and i'd throw in the late Robert B Parker's near miss finishing Chandler's Poodle Springs Philip Marlowe mystery

[deadcowaroma]

It's the infamous Raymond Chandler response to his dinner guests, who cried "isn't it a shame , what hollywood has done to your books."

Chandler walked them to his study,  filled with a shelf of 1st edition copies of his novels

"They're right there, and they are fine."

I bet he was still kinda pissed off though.

[David D.]

Re: John

Maybe, but I think it is a different issue (and is certainly a different issue than whether adaptation to movies hurts the books as per Chandler's quote, I think that is apples and oranges to this matter), as we are now talking about taking a standalone novel and making it the the first in a series.  

And I think that Watchmen's place in the bookstore is more tenuous than Gone With the Wind's place in the bookstore.  And in the place of respect and curiosity it holds for the non-comics reader who might give that one "graphic novel" a try.  Pump out a few more Watchmen books and start numbering the spines and maybe that book moves out of the place I so often see it displayed in a bookstore-- with the notable novels in the front, as a sort of "Hey, why not take a chance on THIS" sort of book-- and it is back to the dumping ground of the graphic novel/ Manga section.  

Now, that might be an overly cautious reaction to have, but I really do believe that there is not the appetite out there in the average (read: not us) reader of Watchmen for more.  They've already read that book.  So why confuse matters by turning it from The Greatest Comic Novel to Another Series of Books Like Everything Else in that section.

[ford]

*** There's a cool webcomic called World of Hurt (worldofhurtonline.com) which is a Blaxploitation themed weekly comic that's a hoot

Very nice, was just about to recommend it to you.
Sidebar did a great interview with World Of Hurt's creator a few weeks ago - http://www.sidebarnation.com/my_weblog/2009/12/jay-potts.html

Afrodisiac's popped up in one of the Popgun volumes as well, maybe a couple of them. Think the appearances are reprinted in the HC.

If people enjoy Jim Rugg's art I highly recommend the two Janes volumes from Minx. P.L.A.I.N. Janes and the sequel Janes In Love.
http://www.dccomics.com/minx/?action=book&i=7218
http://www.dccomics.com/minx/?action=book&i=10013

 

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

I feel bad for forum member The Other Mike (Mike Dimayuga). His book gets a plug on the show, the publisher and writer are mentioned by name, but his name (and his beautiful pencils) gets nary a mention.  
Colt Noble and the Megalords

[David]

And Chi Mcbride is not that bad? Chi Mcbride is one of the best things about the fucking show.

It's so cute seeing you get worked up over my opinion on one of the characters of the show.  That's so unlike you to feel so strongly about something.

Yes, out of the three male leads, Chi McBride's character is the weakest one to me.  It looks like he's going to get lightheaded if he stands up for too long.  If there's no desk to lean on or a chair to sit in, he'll fall over.

I do not dislike McBride.  I liked him in Hoodlum, I liked him in Boston Public (again, not a show where he needed to move around much), I liked him in Gone in Sixty Seconds, and he did a great job of being a prick in House, M.D.  But in Human Target?  I'm not that wowed.

[David D.]

Also--

I think all future sports analogies on the show should be required to use that Pooholes (sp?) guy.


But that's because I am not very mature.  (And I won't be able to follow the other sports analogies anyway)

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

I think all future sports analogies on the show should be required to use that Pooholes (sp?) guy.

Albert Pujols

[David D.]

Albert Pujols

Ah.  Thanks.  Looks like a, uh, what you call... a baseballman.

[thefreakytiki]

Also--

I think all future sports analogies on the show should be required to use that Pooholes (sp?) guy.


But that's because I am not very mature.  (And I won't be able to follow the other sports analogies anyway)

LMAO!  the (sp?) added is hilarious!  Karma David D!


the Tiki

[bean6344]

I've been meaning to get "Afrodisiac" since Comic Geek Speak had Jim Rugg on their podcast episode 767.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/comicgeekspeak/cgs-episode767.mp3

So, I went to instocktrades.com and ordered the Deluxe Edition HC

Afrodisiac "Deluxe"
Limited Edition
• Limited edition of 100
• Presented in a new limited dust jacket
• Includes a new S&N print

As well as One Piece collected 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 and Fables 13.  All for 51 bucs and change. 

Those of you that are Blaxploitation fans, please check out the new "Urban Action Collection DVD".
Blackbelt Jones is pure gold.  Hot Potato is a bit of a stinker.  Three the Hard Way has its moments and I still need to see Black Sampson.

Bean

[HooHaH!]

Regarding the 'Watchmen 2' talk (and I haven't listened to the ep yet so forgive me if this has already been covered) but I think we're seeing the first volley from the new 'DC Entertainment'.  Its easy to imagine corporate looking at the number of Watchmen collections moving thru bookstores the last couple of years and bending Didio's ears.  I doubt if the comic division's new overlords are capable of making a distinction between the creators and their creation.  It's not Moore and Gibbons--it's Rorschach and Manhattan, the Comedian, etc.  Why (I'm assuming they would ask) are they any different then Batman, Superman and Spider-Man?

Well, I'm half-way thru the episode and realize that Wood made the exact same point.  My bad.

[malpractice]

as for the naysayers... how did Neil Gaiman do on Miracleman? How about Mark Millar on the Authority? Zander Cannon & Gene Ha on Top 10? all home run stories for me.

totally different scenarios.

miracleman wasn't created by alan moore and even so moore was cool with gaiman continuing his story, zander cannon and gene ha co-created top 10 with moore and even so, he was cool with them continuing stories without him. not to mention both works lent themselves to continuing stories.

authority was created knowing that it would be a part of an already established shared universe, and to my knowledge ellis did not have a problem with millar continuing the story. also the work lent itself to continuing stories.

watchmen does not meet the same criteria.

[bean6344]

totally different scenarios.

miracleman wasn't created by alan moore ...

[MHJH]

The Watchmen thing I'm not overly concerned about.  I'm not interested at all, though it's not like the prospects of spinoffs haven't been bandied about before.  Didn't Moore himself talk about a Minutemen prequel before he completely fell out with DC?  Either way, what I'm more concerned about is that this quite possibly signals the end of Levitz's run of gentleman's agreements.  While I don't care if DC puts out a Minutemen or Comedian limited series, I'd be seriously disappointed if Jack Knight suddenly started showing up as a background character in every crossover, or if Daniel (Dream) was suddenly launched into his own ongoing Vertigo series.  Sandman still sells well, so why not put out new stuff?  The Starman Omnibuses are still appearing, so why not put some new stuff out for that?  Levitz and DC have treated both of those properties (and Watchmen) rather reverently, but with the new and more corpratized DC, we've probably seen the end of that.

I miss Paul.

[malpractice]

it still does not matter, they are analogues. yes it was originally pitched for charlton characters but it does not matter since that's not what made it to the finished product. the work wouldn't be nearly as strong if they were not analogues which is something everyone involved in the project acknowledges.