11 O'Clock Comics Episode 94

[Dave A]

My thoughts on the Bass vs. Harp argument:



 


For Watchmen follow-ups... c'mon, guys. I appreciate trying to play a bit of devil's advocate, but I think (read: hope to fuck) that everyone knows by now that the characters were not what made Watchmen the powerhouse work that it is. I didn't agree with Moore's statement that Blackest Night was "a sad case of dumpster diving", but any whiff of a follow-up to Watchmen absolutely is -- no ifs, ands or buts about it. You may as well be clamoring for a sequel to Catcher in the Rye now that JD Salinger is dead. It's also a zillionth opportunity for DC to screw Moore and Gibbons out of the rights to their creation, something I want no part of. Even entertaining the notion is incredibly disappointing to hear.

[darrell]

I love Blacksploitation films. Some of them were very empowering. They did have characters that were not all altruistic. I think though if you have a heroes that are hustlers you need the other things that goes along with it. NOt everybody were bad though. Shaft and Truck Turner were good guys, just street. I love Superfly and the Mack though. Dolemite is hilarious too. Sweet Sweetback badassssss song is extra dope. It also had some empowered female characters like Cleopatra Jones and Coffy and of course Foxy Brown. I think those Bill Cosby/ Sidney Poitier films are considered blaxploitation too.

Oh by the way Wood, Black Dynamite is THE TRUTH!!!

Im a fan of alot of it like Lets Do it again with Cosby/Pontier and Truck Turner and Coffy where the characters are pretty much vgilantes trying to avenge a murder or help those who are defenseless. But then there are some that ingnorant kids today emulate. Like comics their was good and bad.They have some great documenteries on what actors and film makers of color had to go through in that time:Black Hollywood: Blaxploitation and Advancing an Independent Black Cinema’ ,

[darrell]

Im one of the few I guess that doesnt feel Watchmen is the best comicbook written. Ive read more then 3 times and each time I thought it was well written but just eh overall. I would love to see DC do more with the characters. I like the characters themselves and would love to see Rochack and Owlman when they first teamed up to take on the gangs. I would love to see stories drawn by Ryan Sook and written by Tony Bedard on the team.

[Jeremy]

On the Watchmen thing: Chris NAILED it. Not that I think it's "the best comic ever," but it's got a sort of purity and meaning, especially given its influence and history, that I feel should not be lightly mucked with.

My initial thoughts were that a straight-up parody would work, but CN's point is on target. A celebration/homage/anything that doesn't attempt to create more CANON should be a-o-k.

The fear (well, not fear, the "misgiving") is that if DC is doing it, they probably want a movie-translatable property or something.

I'm not up in arms by any means, but it did make me groan.

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

I agree with Chris' thoughts on the Watchmen possibilities. An anthology exploring that world could produce some great comics. As he was listing ideal groupings of writer-artist-characters, the first thing that popped into my head was I would love to see a quiet, poignant story about Hollis Mason's later days done by Jeff Lemire. I think Jeff could nail that wistful, bitter-sweet day-to-day narrative of a elderly mechanic who was once a costumed hero. Bring it! 

[David D.]

Apropos to an earlier conversation, it did my heart good when David referred to Watchmen as a "graphic novel" and Chris just called Planet Hulk a "graphic novel".  I agree. 

[Doug!]

For Watchmen follow-ups... c'mon, guys. I appreciate trying to play a bit of devil's advocate, but I think (read: hope to fuck) that everyone knows by now that the characters were not what made Watchmen the powerhouse work that it is. I didn't agree with Moore's statement that Blackest Night was "a sad case of dumpster diving", but any whiff of a follow-up to Watchmen absolutely is -- no ifs, ands or buts about it. You may as well be clamoring for a sequel to Catcher in the Rye now that JD Salinger is dead. It's also a zillionth opportunity for DC to screw Moore and Gibbons out of the rights to their creation, something I want no part of. Even entertaining the notion is incredibly disappointing to hear.

I like it when Dave makes my point for me.  He does it much more eloquently than I do. 

[Dave A]

Im one of the few I guess that doesnt feel Watchmen is the best comicbook written. Ive read more then 3 times and each time I thought it was well written but just eh overall. I would love to see DC do more with the characters. I like the characters themselves and would love to see Rochack and Owlman when they first teamed up to take on the gangs. I would love to see stories drawn by Ryan Sook and written by Tony Bedard on the team.

I agree with Chris' thoughts on the Watchmen possibilities. An anthology exploring that world could produce some great comics. As he was listing ideal groupings of writer-artist-characters, the first thing that popped into my head was I would love to see a quiet, poignant story about Hollis Mason's later days done by Jeff Lemire. I think Jeff could nail that wistful, bitter-sweet day-to-day narrative of a elderly mechanic who was once a costumed hero. Bring it! 

It's got nothing to do with the quality of the work. It's about taking someone else's completed work and adding to it without their permission or blessing. If we want to play this game, we could go all day... why not a 100 Bullets follow-up miniseries by Jason Aaron and Sean Murphy? Those are great creators you'd love to see work together, right? As long as Dizzy and Lono are in it, who gives a crap if it's by Azz and Risso? Did you love Blankets? You know who draws pretty girls? Frank Cho. How awesome would it be to see Frank Cho draw a sequel to Blankets with lots of pretty girls in it?

It's not cool because, no matter how good or fun you think it would be, it's no one else's story!

[Scott C.]

Bendis is Favre?  What does that make Willingham on Fables?  Didn't his story end with #75?  Shouldn't Willingham have gotten off the stage after #75 using Chris' logic?

[darrell]

It's got nothing to do with the quality of the work. It's about taking someone else's completed work and adding to it without their permission or blessing. If we want to play this game, we could go all day... why not a 100 Bullets follow-up miniseries by Jason Aaron and Sean Murphy? Those are great creators you'd love to see work together, right? As long as Dizzy and Lono are in it, who gives a crap if it's by Azz and Risso? Did you love Blankets? You know who draws pretty girls? Frank Cho. How awesome would it be to see Frank Cho draw a sequel to Blankets with lots of pretty girls in it?

It's not cool because, no matter how good or fun you think it would be, it's no one else's story!

Its not the samething because Moore was working for DC at the time he was writing it if Im not mistaking.

[darrell]

Bendis is Favre?  What does that make Willingham on Fables?  Didn't his story end with #75?  Shouldn't Willingham have gotten off the stage after #75 using Chris' logic?

After reading that crossover after 75 i would say yes.

[Scott C.]

I love that the conversation goes from Avengers to Aphrodisiac. 

[Wood]

My thoughts on the Bass vs. Harp argument:



 


For Watchmen follow-ups... c'mon, guys. I appreciate trying to play a bit of devil's advocate, but I think (read: hope to fuck) that everyone knows by now that the characters were not what made Watchmen the powerhouse work that it is. I didn't agree with Moore's statement that Blackest Night was "a sad case of dumpster diving", but any whiff of a follow-up to Watchmen absolutely is -- no ifs, ands or buts about it. You may as well be clamoring for a sequel to Catcher in the Rye now that JD Salinger is dead. It's also a zillionth opportunity for DC to screw Moore and Gibbons out of the rights to their creation, something I want no part of. Even entertaining the notion is incredibly disappointing to hear.

Well you certainly hit a personal note with me by comparing it to Salinger, because I will bulldoze someone's house if they try to sequelize Catcher, I'll tell you what. 

THAT said, I think the premise we have to go on isn't whether they SHOULD do it (I damn sure wish they would leave Watchmen well enough alone) but whether they WILL do it and, if they do, how would we react? As I get older I find it is just exhausting to be upset and angry about things, much less things I can't control.

I would say there's an EXCELLENT chance that I, along with my fine co-hosts, would be very unhappy with the finished product of a Watchmen 2 or whatever. BUT, conceptually, I can't in good faith totally disregard it until I saw it for myself to judge.

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

It's not cool because, no matter how good or fun you think it would be, it's no one else's story!

To be clear, I don't want more Watchmen. But if DC's going to make more Watchmen stories (which they will), I'd hope they put high-quality talent on them and do it anthology-style. I'm seeing it more like the situation with the Cthulhu mythos: there's a lot of potential in the world HPL created and lots of writers would love to roll up their sleeves and play in it. It doesn't take away anything from Lovecraft, for me, when someone writes a splatter-punk Cthulhu story. (I think HPL would hate them and all of the films with his name on them, by the way.)
I don't want or need them, but my panties remain unbunched when they get collected and published, because I still have my Lovecraft stories. 

[Wood]

It's got nothing to do with the quality of the work. It's about taking someone else's completed work and adding to it without their permission or blessing. If we want to play this game, we could go all day... why not a 100 Bullets follow-up miniseries by Jason Aaron and Sean Murphy? Those are great creators you'd love to see work together, right? As long as Dizzy and Lono are in it, who gives a crap if it's by Azz and Risso? Did you love Blankets? You know who draws pretty girls? Frank Cho. How awesome would it be to see Frank Cho draw a sequel to Blankets with lots of pretty girls in it?

It's not cool because, no matter how good or fun you think it would be, it's no one else's story!

In the spirit of things, what you're saying sounds great. Unfortunately, Moore and Gibbons don't have the rights to Watchmen as a property the way that Azz/Risso do with 100 Bullets or Craig Thompson does with Blankets.

[darrell]

I want more Watchmen

[Doug!]

Its not the samething because Moore was working for DC at the time he was writing it if Im not mistaking.

In the spirit of things, what you're saying sounds great. Unfortunately, Moore and Gibbons don't have the rights to Watchmen as a property the way that Azz/Risso do with 100 Bullets or Craig Thompson does with Blankets.

To be fair, Moore and Gibbons were also working under the assumption that they would get the rights to the work back eventually.

[Farrell]

It's got nothing to do with the quality of the work. It's about taking someone else's completed work and adding to it without their permission or blessing. If we want to play this game, we could go all day...

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I don't want more Watchmen myself, but I gotta ask....where do you think that line should be drawn?  Alan Moore created John Constantine in the pages of Swamp Thing, told his story with him, and (to my knowledge) never touched him again.  But DC took the character and gave him his own series, and the rest is history.  Would it have been better if that had never happened?

[darrell]

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I don't want more Watchmen myself, but I gotta ask....where do you think that line should be drawn?  Alan Moore created John Constantine in the pages of Swamp Thing, told his story with him, and (to my knowledge) never touched him again.  But DC took the character and gave him his own series, and the rest is history.  Would it have been better if that had never happened?

I dont think so

[Matt H.O.W.L.]

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I don't want more Watchmen myself, but I gotta ask....where do you think that line should be drawn?  Alan Moore created John Constantine in the pages of Swamp Thing, told his story with him, and (to my knowledge) never touched him again.  But DC took the character and gave him his own series, and the rest is history.  Would it have been better if that had never happened?

Good point. I really think that a non-canonical homage would not hurt the original work. It's venerating the thing.