11 O'Clock Comics Episode 99

[Greg Leclair (greg1ca)]

I will of course be washing it down with bourbon...

Respect

[clever_username]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I've played every single player FF since (the Japanese) 4, and have bought every one since 7 in the week or so it came out.  So it's felt weird not to be more excited about this one, but I was put off by the same review comments you mentioned.  But, you're right, I need to take this game on its own merits and get over trying to compare it to my expectations, or other games that came before.   And hopefully I'll still enjoy it on that level.

I think 5 and 11 are the only ones I haven't played (and I only didn't play 11 because it was MMO). I wish I had a newer system to play 13. But I only got an hour or so into 12 becuase I just didn't have the time.

[Dave A]

You're right, but it does make your evidence irrelevant.

And the difference between your jogging anecdote and your vitamin c anecdote though is that the jogging anecdote has a scientific basis. That's why people believe it. It makes sense that exercise should improve your endurance.

Not that I really care. If you feel good taking vitamin c, by all means 

No, he believes that it works. Science says that it does not and there are other factors that would explain why he didn't catch a cold. Such as he did, but passed it off as allergies or they were too minor for him to notice. Or a hundred other reasons.

Doesn't make it true, either.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15579526?dopt=Abstract

I can't read it, but this is one study I found.

Dave, I know that I'm not going to convince you otherwise, and I don't mean to pile on. It's just the scientist in me. And since I can't bring the subject up with the wife without the risk of having to sleep on the couch. 

Cool... so, to sum up:

Theoretical science from Wikipedia = utterly infallible

My own 5 senses and 5 years of experience taking the supplements and never getting sick = utterly unreliable

Oh, and I can't tell the difference between allergies (which I still have out the yingyang, like clockwork, every Spring, and never at any other time) and the common cold, fevers, pneumonia, flu, or any other communicable illness each of which I used to get on at least an annual basis for 25 years and which I haven't had any trouble with -- other than the aforementioned 3 days of being overwhelmed by sick people -- in 5 years.

I'm convinced! Glad we had this chat.   

i had a kidney stone last year and it had to do with a slight calcium deficiency and taking the vitamin c supplements everyday apparently did not help. my doctor told me to stop taking the vitamin c supplements altogether, and that i'll get what i need of vitamin c from other sources. apparently b12 and Vitamin E supplements are still fine to take though. but that's just me, it's a different thing for everybody.

Now this has me wanting to cut back. I've been thinking of reducing my daily dose for a while and slowly weaning myself down to the point when I only take the supplements as a preventative, but this is probably the kick in the pants I need to get a move on.

[JasonP]

We did an entire episode of Around Comics on conventions.
http://www.aroundcomics.com/index.php/ep-122-comics-101-conventions

In this episode we give our advice on how to make the most of your convention experience. We cover everything from what shoes to wear to what should be in your con bag. Skottie Young gives his pointers on getting sketches and commissions and how to approach creators. Mark Beatty gives us the dealer perspective and provides tips on how you can save a few bucks on everything from quarter books to statues. We're also joined by Stevie D. from the Comic Book Queers podcast in this fun and informative discussion on how to survive conventions.

Chris just wanted to thank you for having this episode available.  I listened to it before I attended my first con, which was Windy City last year, what an amazing time.  I just wanted to say to anyone who hasn't heard and is worried about going to con this is a great episode because it covers many of the angles that I was thinking about and gave me answers.  Looking forward to seeing you guys at C2E2!

[David]

How much do you take, Dave?  I think I take 1000mg a day of vitamin C, but I'll have to check the bottle.  Renee needed it so her iron pills wouldn't knock her on her ass.

[clever_username]

Cool... so, to sum up:

Theoretical science from Wikipedia = utterly infallible

My own 5 senses and 5 years of experience taking the supplements and never getting sick = utterly unreliable

Oh, and I can't tell the difference between allergies (which I still have out the yingyang, like clockwork, every Spring, and never at any other time) and the common cold, fevers, pneumonia, flu, or any other communicable illness each of which I used to get on at least an annual basis for 25 years and which I haven't had any trouble with -- other than the aforementioned 3 days of being overwhelmed by sick people -- in 5 years.

I'm convinced! Glad we had this chat.    

I was just throwing out other possible explanations. I never said it was allergies.

And I never referenced Wikipedia.

Your defensiveness and sarcasm has convinced me that you do know we're right but are just too ashamed to admit it here. Chalk up another victory for SCIENCE!  
 

[Dave A]

How much do you take, Dave?  I think I take 1000mg a day of vitamin C, but I'll have to check the bottle.  Renee needed it so her iron pills wouldn't knock her on her ass.

I used to take 1000mg a day, I've already scaled it back to 500mg a day. Now I'm thinking of only doing half doses. I'm diabetic, so long-term effects are tres scary. 

Your defensiveness and sarcasm has convinced me that you do know we're right but are just too ashamed to admit it here. Chalk up another victory for SCIENCE!   

No defensiveness here, baby! Just making the same point as you: Don't believe everything you hear. 

[deadcowaroma]

Cool... so, to sum up:

Theoretical science from Wikipedia = utterly infallible

My own 5 senses and 5 years of experience taking the supplements and never getting sick = utterly unreliable

Now you're getting it. Although the Wikipedia link is also supported by actual science and is not theoretical.

...and I also referenced a medical doctor who was an expert in infectious diseases.

[Farrell]

I think 5 and 11 are the only ones I haven't played (and I only didn't play 11 because it was MMO). I wish I had a newer system to play 13. But I only got an hour or so into 12 becuase I just didn't have the time.

I was bummed during the MMO period cause I'm not touching those things. 

I even played X-2, though.  Not to mention FF: Tactics.  (the Gameboy games and Crystal Chronicles game were the suck, though).

[AdolfoE]

Just wanted to say that you guys have been on a roll with these last few episodes!  If I could only listen to one podcast it would be this one.  Every one of you has their own peculiar taste in comics and art.  You guys definitely have a great dynamic.  Keep bringing the crazy talk and I'll keep listening and supporting in any way I can.

[clever_username]

I was bummed during the MMO period cause I'm not touching those things. 

I even played X-2, though.  Not to mention FF: Tactics.  (the Gameboy games and Crystal Chronicles game were the suck, though).

I played a little X-2. I got stuck at one point a little way in becuase I had to talk to certain people in a certain order on the airshipe (or something like that) and I coulddn't get my character to line up correctly. So I just gave up.

I didn't play any of the game boy games. I wish I had a DS so I could play some of the updated versions of the earlier games.

[Julian Lytle]

I was bummed during the MMO period cause I'm not touching those things. 

I even played X-2, though.  Not to mention FF: Tactics.  (the Gameboy games and Crystal Chronicles game were the suck, though).

You're crazy FF adventure and Legend was hype and from that we got the Mana and SaGa games. Bugging. The tactics games are still dope. Heck FFT is second favorite FF game ever. It's so hard and the characters are 2d but chibi and body people. It has a ninjas!

[Dave A]

Now you're getting it. Although the Wikipedia link is also supported by actual science and is not theoretical.

...and I also referenced a medical doctor who was an expert in infectious diseases.

I'm starting to think you're a science zealot.  

The Wiki link is a collection of different argumentative sources that drew no substantial conclusion I could discern. One study said that the vitamin didn't prevent illness but shortened its duration, one study said there was an effect on athletes in extreme climates, one source called into question the results of the other studies. Maybe theoretical was the wrong word, but that's not really strong evidence one way or the other. (Not to mention being Wikipedia.)

The medical expert link seeks to disprove that an immune system can be "boosted" or worked out like a muscle. Alright, I'll give you that... maybe that's not what's happening. Maybe it's something else entirely, I don't know. But that doesn't disprove the end result: I take vitamin C supplements, I don't get sick.

So, in hopes of cutting a circular debate short (too late!), I'll rephrase:

I introduced a single controlled factor -- vitamin C supplements -- into my diet 5 years ago. At that time, I was feeling less than 100% because of communicable diseases about 8 months out of 12 every year, and finally reached my breaking point and was ready to try anything outside of the countless ineffectual antibiotics that I'm sure were studied and scientifically proven to eliminate the sort of problems I was having. So -- quite skeptically, I might add -- I started taking a daily vitamin C pill. I made no other changes to my diet, my lifestyle, the people I knew, my physical routine, or my environment. I have spent the past 5 years in almost perfect health, with the notable exception of 3 days last December. Also, others to whom I've recommended the supplements have achieved similar reductions in the frequency and/or duration of their illnesses (or at least, the symptoms).

Maybe science doesn't know why yet, but the results are there, and calling my own trial experience "irrelevant" flies completely in the face of reason to me. All I have to go by in this world are my own experiences; you can tell me the stove will burn me, but until I touch it, it cannot actually burn me, you know? So, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I may be the 1 person in the history of the world who should expect the results I've achieved -- in which case, I don't care, because I've got the results I wanted, and it is impossible to disprove that. Even if it's a placebo effect -- and that's a hell of a placebo! -- taking that pill every day is keeping me from getting ill, the same as it has done for 5 years running. I did a clinical trial on myself! Consider this my paper!  

And, if others wished to try a similar experiment in hopes of achieving similar results, I would not think that illogical and would not seek to dissuade them. There, my final thoughts, Hallelujah, praise the Lord, let's talk some comics.

[deadcowaroma]

I'm starting to think you're a science zealot.  

The Wiki link is a collection of different argumentative sources that drew no substantial conclusion I could discern. One study said that the vitamin didn't prevent illness but shortened its duration, one study said there was an effect on athletes in extreme climates, one source called into question the results of the other studies. Maybe theoretical was the wrong word, but that's not really strong evidence one way or the other. (Not to mention being Wikipedia.)

The medical expert link seeks to disprove that an immune system can be "boosted" or worked out like a muscle. Alright, I'll give you that... maybe that's not what's happening. Maybe it's something else entirely, I don't know. But that doesn't disprove the end result: I take vitamin C supplements, I don't get sick.

So, in hopes of cutting a circular debate short (too late!), I'll rephrase:

I introduced a single controlled factor -- vitamin C supplements -- into my diet 5 years ago. At that time, I was feeling less than 100% because of communicable diseases about 8 months out of 12 every year, and finally reached my breaking point and was ready to try anything outside of the countless ineffectual antibiotics that I'm sure were studied and scientifically proven to eliminate the sort of problems I was having. So -- quite skeptically, I might add -- I started taking a daily vitamin C pill. I made no other changes to my diet, my lifestyle, the people I knew, my physical routine, or my environment. I have spent the past 5 years in almost perfect health, with the notable exception of 3 days last December. Also, others to whom I've recommended the supplements have achieved similar reductions in the frequency and/or duration of their illnesses (or at least, the symptoms).

Maybe science doesn't know why yet, but the results are there, and calling my own trial experience "irrelevant" flies completely in the face of reason to me. All I have to go by in this world are my own experiences; you can tell me the stove will burn me, but until I touch it, it cannot actually burn me, you know? So, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I may be the 1 person in the history of the world who should expect the results I've achieved -- in which case, I don't care, because I've got the results I wanted, and it is impossible to disprove that. Even if it's a placebo effect -- and that's a hell of a placebo! -- taking that pill every day is keeping me from getting ill, the same as it has done for 5 years running. I did a clinical trial on myself! Consider this my paper!  

And, if others wished to try a similar experiment in hopes of achieving similar results, I would not think that illogical and would not seek to dissuade them. There, my final thoughts, Hallelujah, praise the Lord, let's talk some comics.

I don't know... This:

In the past 30 years, numerous placebo-controlled trials have examined the effect of vitamin C supplementation on the prevention and treatment of colds. More than 30 clinical trials with over 10,000 participants have examined the effects of taking daily vitamin C in doses up to 2 g/day. Overall, no significant reduction in the risk of developing colds has been observed. When observing those individuals who developed the common cold while taking vitamin C, no significant difference in severity of symptoms was noticed within the study overall. Although an extremely small significant reduction in the duration of colds has been reported, the decrease cannot be significantly linked to vitamin C intake (Ethan Basch, Catherine Ulbricht, Christine Ulbricht, & Wendy Weissner, 2007). However, in a subgroup of marathon runners, skiers, and soldiers training in the Arctic doses ranging from 250 mg/day to 1 g/day decreased the incidence of colds by 50% (Jane Higdon & Balz Frei, 2006). Therefore, the majority of studies of non-athletic people, when looked at collectively, led researchers to conclude that vitamin C does not prevent or treat the common cold.[5]

Sounds pretty conclusive to me. Unless you are a marathon runner, skier, or soldier training in the Arctic.

I guess it's possible that you might have some rare ailment that is treated by vitamin c, but you gotta admit that the evidence is pretty conclusive in showing that vitamin c doesn't boost the immune system of the common person.

[Farrell]

I have spent the past 5 years in almost perfect health, with the notable exception of 3 days last December.

Arguments aside, I'm glad you aren't sick eight (!) months out of the year anymore.  That would wear anybody down.  

You're crazy FF adventure and Legend was hype and from that we got the Mana and SaGa games. Bugging. The tactics games are still dope. Heck FFT is second favorite FF game ever. It's so hard and the characters are 2d but chibi and body people. It has a ninjas!

Let's be clear now:  Final Fantasy Tactics on the Playstation was dead sexy.   Ninja sexy.  The FF Tactics games they did on the Gameboy, on the other hand, were dead silly and a huge disappointment.  

You're bugging if you like the Saga games, though.    I haven't played any that weren't localized for the U.S. market, but I've tried to play all three that were (I, II, and Unlimited Saga), and they're about the 3 worst JRPGs I've ever played.  To be fair, I barely played "Unlimited".  But to be fair to me, it's widely considered to be shit.

Mana...I did like Secret of, I think it was, although they're all pretty acquired tastes.  I had more tolerance for weirdness back then.  Plus I hadn't played about a bazillion games with some tree you had to save so the world wouldn't end.

[Farrell]

Sounds pretty conclusive to me. Unless you are a marathon runner, skier, or soldier training in the Arctic.

A 50% reduction is nothing to sneeze at, though...


Where my rim shot at? 

[deadpool]

Wood buddy who eats here....


I DO!!!

when i lived in new york for a couple of months i ate here at least 7 or 8 nights. i was living up near the M&M superstore, go to the Marriot buy my theatre tickets, go to bubba gump for dinner then off to the show for the night , (later bars and strip clubs)

Ok so its not the best food for such a big city, but i'm from Melbourne Australia, one of the food capitals in the world. i can get good food cheap anynight of my life, what we don't have is citche stuff like Popcorn shrimp! Dr Pepper is rare as diamonds, but it flows like water at bubba gump.

not to mention Forrest Gump is cult classic in my school year, i was ringing all sorts of people saying "guess where i'm eating!"

yeah its touristy but stuff it i can do none touristy stuff at home. i'm returning to New York either later this year or next year with my best friend and a few of the uni girls, first dinner spot i'm taking them to BUBBA GUMP!

[Wood]

Just wanted to say that you guys have been on a roll with these last few episodes!  If I could only listen to one podcast it would be this one.  Every one of you has their own peculiar taste in comics and art.  You guys definitely have a great dynamic.  Keep bringing the crazy talk and I'll keep listening and supporting in any way I can.

  THANK YOU for the kind words.

[Wood]

Wood buddy who eats here....


I DO!!!

when i lived in new york for a couple of months i ate here at least 7 or 8 nights. i was living up near the M&M superstore, go to the Marriot buy my theatre tickets, go to bubba gump for dinner then off to the show for the night , (later bars and strip clubs)

Ok so its not the best food for such a big city, but i'm from Melbourne Australia, one of the food capitals in the world. i can get good food cheap anynight of my life, what we don't have is citche stuff like Popcorn shrimp! Dr Pepper is rare as diamonds, but it flows like water at bubba gump.

not to mention Forrest Gump is cult classic in my school year, i was ringing all sorts of people saying "guess where i'm eating!"

yeah its touristy but stuff it i can do none touristy stuff at home. i'm returning to New York either later this year or next year with my best friend and a few of the uni girls, first dinner spot i'm taking them to BUBBA GUMP!

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing DP

[Finn5fel]

Thank you Vince for raving about Empowered. It's one of my three favorite series, and I voted for it and Adam Warren for the 11 O'Closcars. I met Adam Warren at the San Diego Comic Con last July, and he was the nicest, most unassuming guy. This is a series everyone should be reading!