Marvel Noise Episode 119

[Papajay]

It was actually my first time recording anything actually, and with that said, if anyone has any comments or criticisms, please share them. I need to know how to be better.

It's funny because I went out to dinner last Wednesday with Rick, Adam, El Dave, and Jose and they thought I would be the "badboy of Marvel podcasting" since I decided to take on Stan The Man on my first outing. 

I've never posted before, even though I've been listening to the show since ep.1, mainly because I know how people can be on message boards, but I figured now would be a good time. I was looking forward to "Tales from the Quarter Bin" and to my dismay I was slapped with the phrase "Stan Lee stole from Jack Kirby, now he's stealing from DC" and thought to myself "What an ignorant thing to say". Let's assume you're not talking about stealing Jack's cigars; now if you're talking original art, I think the art dealers are the thieves there; if you're talking about characters, well Marvel (or Disney) owns those, not Stan. Perhaps you mean Stan stole Jack's ideas or credit, well Stan has always acknowledged the Jack wrote many stories without his input and gave sole credit of the Silver Surfer to him, in addition to giving him credit on the letters and bullpen bulletins pages. As far as stealing Jack's ideas, not even the best comics historians can say who did what, there are so many contradictions on both sides, and since YOU WEREN'T THERE I'm assuming you don't know either. I'm not even going to comment on the DC thing, that's just laughable.

I have to assume you're trying to impress the Stan hating buds at 11 o'clock, I suggest you get you nose out of the Kirby Collector and read some Alter Ego to get some real comics history. I find it sad that due to a few podcasters with an imaginary ax to grind a man's legacy is being distorted, a man who ALL industry professionals look up to, especially the ones that worked for him. Unfortunately the Quarter Bin show is now a mine field I don't think I can walk through anymore, sorry.

While you're reading the Alter Ego's I have a trivia question; What characters or concepts that were created by Jack Kirby without Stan Lee attached continues to this day uninterrupted in comic format from any company?

Just to clarify, I'm NOT a Jack hater by any means, I'm just sayin' if you weren't there, you don't know Jack. 

[Comicbookhero (Michael Moskop)]

I've never posted before, even though I've been listening to the show since ep.1, mainly because I know how people can be on message boards, but I figured now would be a good time. I was looking forward to "Tales from the Quarter Bin" and to my dismay I was slapped with the phrase "Stan Lee stole from Jack Kirby, now he's stealing from DC" and thought to myself "What an ignorant thing to say". Let's assume you're not talking about stealing Jack's cigars; now if you're talking original art, I think the art dealers are the thieves there; if you're talking about characters, well Marvel (or Disney) owns those, not Stan. Perhaps you mean Stan stole Jack's ideas or credit, well Stan has always acknowledged the Jack wrote many stories without his input and gave sole credit of the Silver Surfer to him, in addition to giving him credit on the letters and bullpen bulletins pages. As far as stealing Jack's ideas, not even the best comics historians can say who did what, there are so many contradictions on both sides, and since YOU WEREN'T THERE I'm assuming you don't know either. I'm not even going to comment on the DC thing, that's just laughable.

I have to assume you're trying to impress the Stan hating buds at 11 o'clock, I suggest you get you nose out of the Kirby Collector and read some Alter Ego to get some real comics history. I find it sad that due to a few podcasters with an imaginary ax to grind a man's legacy is being distorted, a man who ALL industry professionals look up to, especially the ones that worked for him. Unfortunately the Quarter Bin show is now a mine field I don't think I can walk through anymore, sorry.

While you're reading the Alter Ego's I have a trivia question; What characters or concepts that were created by Jack Kirby without Stan Lee attached continues to this day uninterrupted in comic format from any company?

Just to clarify, I'm NOT a Jack hater by any means, I'm just sayin' if you weren't there, you don't know Jack. 

Hi. Welcome to the forums.

As for my segment, I of course meant it in jest. The similarities between Solarman and DC's Green Lantern are staggering (bordering on copyright infringement if you ask me) and I wanted to present it in a humorous way. I love Stan Lee and I agree that his contributions to the comic book industry and specifically the superhero genre have been immense. Geez, I am probably one of the only people that own a copy of Who Wants To Be A Superhero? on DVD! The thing is though that a lot of things are attributed to him solely that were actually collaborations. It's not entirely his fault, but that is what happened. I am sorry if my segment offended you, and I sincerely hope this doesn't sour you from listening to the other great people who contribute and work very hard to make Marvel Noise what it is.

Oh and as for your trivia question, I would suggest picking up Kamandi, any of the Fourth World books, or The Demon just to name a few.

[Steve Raker]

Oh and as for your trivia question, I would suggest picking up Kamandi, any of the Fourth World books, or The Demon just to name a few.

BUZZ! Nope, he said uninterrupted, like the titles/concepts Jack made with Stan.

Welcome and thanks for the thoughtful contribution, Papajay!  I'm a big fan of both Stan and Jack (middle name of my 5 y/o is Stan, first name of my one y/o is Jack!), and have come to simply tolerate the Stan bashing, although for the most part, I do not agree with it.  The media made Stan the 'creator' of it all, particularly in a couple of famous fluff pieces by those not in the know.  That ticked Kirby off, which was fuelled by a bunch of crazy claims to sole creation of characters in Jack and Roz's later years.

I love the Kirby Collector, and while it's a bit biased, those in the know continue to give a more balanced view of Marvel history, like Mark Evanier, who, if anybody knows the Jack side of the story, it's him!  Stan also gets crapped on because he's still alive.....pity.  It'd be easier to say the Marvel age of comics was all Jack if Stan didn't create similar magic and successes with other artists, whether it be Ditko, Heck, Ayers, Colan, etc.  And Stan was an amazingly adaptive writer and editor across genres, having huge successes in romance, war, western, monster, horror and superhero books.  Stan was the common element in all of Marvel's books.  He took care (as best he could at the time) of his stable of artists, and created the environment where they were arle to do their best works.  He ran interferrence with Goodman, and also took the time to let us fans in on the action.....he was "The Man!"

Lastly, what always gets me about the 'creation' of a character versus the 'fleshing out' or 'refined designing' of a character is this:  When the artist gets the character info to help design the character, someone handed it off to him (writer or editor)....when the writer (or editor) comes up with the idea to give to the artist, who is before him in the 'creative chain of events'?  When a prose writer creates a hero in a novel, is he not the creator, because the book jacket artist didn't depict him yet?

Stan and Jack created the Marvel Universe together, with some help from Ditko, et al.,.....Stan was the Man who held it all together and played ring leader, plus he was the boss......'nuff said!

[Rick Hansen]

Hi guys! Who's missed me?

Mike, a splendid first outing! Much fewer mistakes than MY first recording. (I kid!)

Welcome to the forums, new guy! I don't like arguing about my comics, so I just want to say that Stan is an absolutely great entertainer and a comic book legend and – while my knowledge of Kirby is limited – the most impressed I've been with his stuff is when I saw his raw pencils that had been ruined by the inkers he worked with. If there is anyone out there who doesn't look at Kirby as a big deal, they have GOT to get a look at his pencilled pages. Whoever created and co-created our heroes, you have to admit that Stan brought an unparalleled LOVE and PASSION to comics for decades, and he still keeps giving us more to this day.

Well, I've already sent the next Smash Tales to DAP, so you can all rest easy. Until next week...
FARE THEEE WELLLLL!!

[Papajay]

As for my segment, I of course meant it in jest.

Oops... sorry about that, or as Emily Latella used to say on the old SNL "Never mind".

I feel badly about getting on your case, I could say the dog ate my home work, or my wife left me, or my kid's sick, or my fish died, or after seeing some pretty rough Stan bashing on a Kirby thread I was like "No! Not Marvel Noise too!", but I won't because there is no excuse for jumping to conclusions. So, by way of apology, if we're at the same N.Y. area convention I'll buy you a beer.

That was a lousy post as my first one, can we pretend I didn't send it and I can start over?

[Papajay]

Hi Marvel Noise, this is my FIRST post to tell you how much my family and I enjoy your great podcast. Every week we huddle by the glow of the fireplace around the i-pod dock and listen to the latest episode, feverishly gripping our Marvel Noise decoder rings.
Ep. 119 was a dandy.
                 
Pat, as usual, was great (as is Loika Mainia).

I always liked Steve Raker's contributions and "Raker's dozen" was no exception. I agree with you about J.R.J.R., great artist, but some times the faces are a little off. Mabe too angular, good for power, but not very soft.

Dave K's Night Nurse segment was cool, for the longest time I thought that character was a joke, not a real book.

I have to say I really enjoyed Michael's "From the Quarter Box", it was funny and brought back horrible memories of buying that book off the stands, I was thinking "Wow, Stan's 60's type writing don't translate too well out of the 60's, this kinda sucks". Firey mullet is right, still didn't make me want to join the Solarman club.


David is as always DAP. The Avengers are the Avengers again.

Looking forward to more Smash Tales and Power Record segments.


I think this was a better first post, than my last first post.

[Steve Raker]

Hi Marvel Noise, this is my FIRST post to tell you...........

  Nice! (I liked the other ones, too!)

[LA Rabbit]

What characters or concepts that were created by Jack Kirby without Stan Lee attached continues to this day uninterrupted in comic format from any company?

Just to clarify, I'm NOT a Jack hater by any means, I'm just sayin' if you weren't there, you don't know Jack. 

Sorry I am late to the game.  I like the "you don't know Jack" tagline.  The closest I can come to is Captain America but the character had a break in the barren '50's.  I don't know if that counts or not.  I love posting to the old boards.  Hope everyone is going to have a great weekend.  Unfortunately I will be working (seems like I am always working which is better than never working).  Thanks.