Comic Book Noise 203: The Return of the TOP, BOP and ROW

[Derek Coward]

Host Derek Coward brings back the TOP, BOP and ROW.
http://www.comicbooknoise.com/2010/06/10/comic-book-noise-203-the-return-of-top-bop-and-row/

[David]

Yay!!!

And booooo on myself for being so behind in my podcasts.  Stupid work and vacation.

[Derek Coward]

Yay!!!

And booooo on myself for being so behind in my podcasts.  Stupid work and vacation.

I can stop if you want, just until you catch up.

[David]

I can stop if you want, just until you catch up.

HA!  Never.

Like Spock told Kirk, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  Or the one.

[Derek Coward]

HA!  Never.

Like Spock told Kirk, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  Or the one.

Just be glad I didn't nut up and record a three hour podcast like I was thinking about.

[LA Rabbit]

As far as I am concerned, feel free to drop a 6 hour podcast.  I am finishing up 11 O'clock comics 112, and after this to this episode, you may want to skip the end of 112 (a certain Vince B. takes a poke lighthearted poke at one of your books).     However, I giggled, but I am a bad man.  Keep up the good work.   

[HulkSmash]

Just one reason I love the man known as Derek Coward: going out of the way to slam Steve Rogers and anything redeeming about him and then at the end of the show saying, "I don't think I'll get much feedback." The man knows how to work the crowd with those Jedi podcast mind tricks.

[Derek Coward]

Just one reason I love the man known as Derek Coward: going out of the way to slam Steve Rogers and anything redeeming about him and then at the end of the show saying, "I don't think I'll get much feedback." The man knows how to work the crowd with those Jedi podcast mind tricks.

I didn't slam everything redeeming about him. I think I said something nice about his high threshold for hypocrisy, That's a virtue in some circles.

[Wood]

Fun episode Derek.

I listened today while driving around doing some errands.

You probably already know this, but Great Ten sold so terribly that it's actually a surprise they kept it 9 issues and didn't cut it off sooner.

11/2009: The Great Ten #1  of 10 -- 13,159
12/2009: The Great Ten #2  of 10 --  8,760 (-33.4%)
01/2010: The Great Ten #3  of 10 --  7,458 (-14.9%)
02/2010: The Great Ten #4  of 10 --  6,812 (- 8.7%)
03/2010: The Great Ten #5  of 10 --  6,555 (- 3.8%)

This is among the worst selling DC universe titles ever. I haven't read it myself so I can't speak to the quality and I know you're enjoying. But this is just one of those books that was either poorly marketed or just didn't resonate with buyers.

[Derek Coward]

Damn, those numbers make me sad. This just reinforces my belief that while they say different superhero comic book fans do NOT want differently told stories about new characters.

The storytelling is more like the first season of LOST than something like Blackest Night (at least what I read of BN) or Secret Invasion, which are straight forward ‘bad guys attack, good guys fight back’ stories.

It was written by an up and coming writer who was on a major project (Countdown may have sucked in spots but it was definitely major) and on a critically favored book (R.E.B.E.L.S.) instead of one of the usual suspects (I understand why Morrison, Johns, Bendis and Millar have been in charge of their respective universes, but usually I have enjoyed more of the tie-ins not written by them than their main minis).

The characters were created within the past few years instead of the past few decades. 52 was only four years ago.

The next time I see creators like Erik Larsen or Tony Harris talk about how people need to try new things, I will think back to the complete and utter failure of The Great Ten. Not only was it a sales disaster, but this failure has also proven that it makes no sense for me to support anything new in the single issue format. For the past few years, my pull list usually consists of miniseries (The Great Ten, Daytripper, Tangent: Superman's Reign, etc) or indie books (The Sword, 28 Days Later, True Story Swear To God, etc) because I know that anything even slightly mainstream will be collected at a later date.

Now, regardless of whether I feel it is worth supporting, I will just have to wait for the trade. If it never gets collected, oh well, bad for me. And if I forget to buy the trade, then oh well, bad for them.

[Wood]

Damn, those numbers make me sad. This just reinforces my belief that while they say different superhero comic book fans do NOT want differently told stories about new characters.

The storytelling is more like the first season of LOST than something like Blackest Night (at least what I read of BN) or Secret Invasion, which are straight forward ‘bad guys attack, good guys fight back’ stories.

It was written by an up and coming writer who was on a major project (Countdown may have sucked in spots but it was definitely major) and on a critically favored book (R.E.B.E.L.S.) instead of one of the usual suspects (I understand why Morrison, Johns, Bendis and Millar have been in charge of their respective universes, but usually I have enjoyed more of the tie-ins not written by them than their main minis).

The characters were created within the past few years instead of the past few decades. 52 was only four years ago.

The next time I see creators like Erik Larsen or Tony Harris talk about how people need to try new things, I will think back to the complete and utter failure of The Great Ten. Not only was it a sales disaster, but this failure has also proven that it makes no sense for me to support anything new in the single issue format. For the past few years, my pull list usually consists of miniseries (The Great Ten, Daytripper, Tangent: Superman's Reign, etc) or indie books (The Sword, 28 Days Later, True Story Swear To God, etc) because I know that anything even slightly mainstream will be collected at a later date.

Now, regardless of whether I feel it is worth supporting, I will just have to wait for the trade. If it never gets collected, oh well, bad for me. And if I forget to buy the trade, then oh well, bad for them.

I've wrestled with this exact issue. I know from our indie creator friends how important it is to support the single issues, and am mindful of that. But the combination of:

*** Low sales curtailing series (e.g., your situation with Great Ten)
*** Massively delayed series (e.g., Pretty Baby Machine)
*** Series that never finish (e.g., Red Mass for Mars)

makes it really hard as a consumer to feel like you're being given the same care and attention that you're trying to give to the creators in turn.

I think it was Tom Katers who said once about this subject that if the publishers didn't want us to choose, then they shouldn't give us choice. And I think that's the very logical way of looking at it. As you said Derek, we as consumers also have to choose. I recognize now that some of the minis and indie books that seem interesting may never get to finish or get traded if I opt not to buy the single issues, but that's a risk I'm willing to take more and more often.

[Alec B.]

Now, regardless of whether I feel it is worth supporting, I will just have to wait for the trade. If it never gets collected, oh well, bad for me. And if I forget to buy the trade, then oh well, bad for them.

Way I see it, the best stories will always be collected in some format and be readily available from Amazon. In the meantime, I will check out the stories that I have missed and already exist.

I do not recieve this freedom with single issues.

[David]

Now, regardless of whether I feel it is worth supporting, I will just have to wait for the trade. If it never gets collected, oh well, bad for me. And if I forget to buy the trade, then oh well, bad for them.

Based on their practices, I'm pretty much going the same route.  Based on your feelings for The Great Ten, I was going to get the trade.  If it comes out.

[Derek Coward]

Based on their practices, I'm pretty much going the same route.  Based on your feelings for The Great Ten, I was going to get the trade.  If it comes out.

What pisses me off was that crack that dude made about "vote with your dollars". I guess votes only matter some times. I voted for a ten issue miniseries and I am getting nine issues. That kind of shit leads to disenfranchisement.I realize that cutting of the mini makes "good business sense" for DC, but not buying their stuff makes great business sense for D.C.

[David]

What pisses me off was that crack that dude made about "vote with your dollars".

Oh, you too?