11 O'Clock Comics Episode 18

[clever_username]

Correct, because Vince was questioning the quality of Mignola's work pre-Hellboy and personally, I think he did some DAMN fine stuff when he was working for the "establishment". 

I have some video from last year's DC\Marvel inter-company cruise

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/f9LscXoOiLk&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/f9LscXoOiLk&rel=1</a>

PROBIE!!!!

Karma for you, sir.

[David]

Hmmm, wonder how the Kirkman plan handles cases where writers need other writers to help write the stories?  Was Byrne doing work-for-hire for Mignola or were they co-creators?  Does John get residuals for BPRD?

I wouldn't call Byrne a co-creator on Hellboy.  It was Mignola's plot, Byrne only scripted the story.  I'm sure he gets residuals, depending on how Dark Horse and Mignola have it set up, on Seed of Destruction and where that story appears (Library Editions), but I think anything beyond that, would be Byrne-free.

That's my guess, anyway.

[David]

No one back then would have guessed he'd be able to create and write a series/character with the staying power of Hellboy.

That's where I thought you were going.

[Equinox]

No one back then would have guessed he'd be able to create and write a series/character with the staying power of Hellboy.

Same is true today.  Mouse Guard, Bone, The Walking Dead...no one saw them coming before or even shortly after they came out and nobody could've predicted how far reacing their popularity would hit.

What'll the next big hit be?  My money's on "Locke and Key", but not for the reason that Chris loves it.

[David]

Is it possible, that someone that's a big name - like Morrison or Byrne or Bendis or McFarlane or ... - might see writing Batman or Fantastic Four or Superman or Amazing Spider-Man or ... as a promotion?  For doing good work that's generated money for the company in other areas on other titles?

"Hey, thanks for knocking it outta the park on that five-part backup story on Amadeus Arkham and for doing a great job on that Harvey Bullock miniseries, here's Batman.  The fans want to see you on it, you deserve it, it'll sell like gangbusters, and everyone'll be happy."  Sometimes maybe the guy just wants his name on a cover of Batman or Spider-Man or Superman.

Yes, Batman will sell regardless.  But there's nothing like being rewarded for doing good work.  

[David]

Same is true today.  Mouse Guard, Bone, The Walking Dead...no one saw them coming before or even shortly after they came out and nobody could've predicted how far reacing their popularity would hit.

What'll the next big hit be?  My money's on "Locke and Key", but not for the reason that Chris loves it.

That's different.  Mignola worked for the big two.  Peterson, Smith, and Kirkman did not get their start in the mainstream.

[Chris]

you know somethin'? Drinking and comics don't really go together all that well. Chris sounds like a bitter old fanzine editor spewing poop at an a LCS. How 'bout one dry episode, huh guys? Jeez.

I won't stop drinking while we're recording. The show is trying to simulate four friends sitting at a bar chewing the fat. I think it' a hell of a lot more entertaining than the four of us reading dry essays or all agreeing with each other.

This subject was one that was bound to bring out some passionate points of view, and it did. Sorry if I sounded like a bitter old man.

For the record, I had one glass of bourbon. The simple fact of the show is that we record late at night, and I'm not that lucid after 11:00.

Some LCSs deserve poop to be thrown at them.

[DoctorTeeth]

(First of all, I need to somehow listen to the episodes as soon as they come online.  I usually have a two day lag, and really don't think I can contribute anything new eight forum pages later...)

So I just poured myself an Archbishop Punch - at least your show gives me the excuse to try some alcoholic alchemical experiments - and sat down to listen to the episode, but since it's two hours long, I'm probably going to have to listen to this one in two pieces. Hopefully I'll be able to leave some decent feedback by the end of the weekend.

[George Liquor_American]

3. Vince seems to be part of this "down with the man" movement I do not hate Vince though. I like Vince. Vince is a hippy.

Heavens no! I would never hang around with one of those filthy hippies.
And Vince isn't pushing a "down with the man" movement.
It's more like a "up with men (in his ass)" movement.

Heh.

[clever_username]

(First of all, I need to somehow listen to the episodes as soon as they come online.  I usually have a two day lag, and really don't think I can contribute anything new eight forum pages later...)

Just remember you can skip the first two or three pages because it gets that far before Vince even posts the episode.

[Equinox]

Chris read "Fruits Basket"?

Damn, I get upset about it when my 14 year old son wants to read those books; I tell him that he needs to read something a little more mature.   

Broken record time:  Someone give Tarp (the Epic version)

[David]

(and really don't think I can contribute anything new eight forum pages later...)

Sure you can.  And you always do.

[Dallan]

But the question that came to mind is: if Kirkman's blueprint became a reality, how would Marvel and DC react, and what, ultimately, would that do for your average comic buyer?


Would they say, "sure, no problem -- we'd love to be the stepping stone for creators on a path to individual stardom?"
Would they cave in and start offering partial ownership to the creator's property?
Would they fight losing the talent they deem "bankable" any way they could?


Sure, neither of the Big 2 can prevent their creators from leaving when their exclusives are up -- but they can really make turning down the contract extension a challenging and even painful decision.

Interesting points, PC. 

While I don't necessarily agree with Vince's basic point of view that the big two are simply evil corporate entities, I do believe that no matter who is at the helm, no matter how kind hearted and creator friendly the EIC's might be at any given time, ultimately they will always be beholden to the stock holders of those two companies.  Sad but true.

All I can do is buy what I enjoy.  I purposefully try to make a healthy portion of that creator owned indie work, but, hey, I still loves me some Spider-Man.  What's a guy to do?

--------------------
It's interesting to note that something quite relevant came up as I was reading the Savage Dragon back issues (I'm up to issue 50 now).  People were always saying in the letters columns that they couldn't believe that SD wasn't selling better than it was at the time (1997 ish), calling its sales figures "cult numbers."  Then in 1998, Erik Larsen announced that he was going back to the big two to write Wolverine and Aquaman.  In the letters column of SD #49, Erik explains himself.  "As for needing the cash, that's not the case either!  Savage Dragon more than pays the bills.  The truth is, I missed playing in the DC and Marvel playgrounds and I thought if I did some outside writing for those two establishments I might get some attention for the old fin-head in addition to having a swell time."

Here's a guy who helped found Image, the one guy who still does his creator owned book TO THIS DAY, the main guy other than Kirkman who most often rails against the big two, and here he was in 1998 going back to the big two for two very good reasons.  To have fun and to bring a bigger audience over to his book.  Fairly interesting and relevant I should say.

[Equinox]

It's interesting to note that something quite relevant came up as I was reading the Savage Dragon back issues (I'm up to issue 50 now).  People were always saying in the letters columns that they couldn't believe that SD wasn't selling better than it was at the time (1997 ish), calling its sales figures "cult numbers."  Then in 1998, Erik Larsen announced that he was going back to the big two to write Wolverine and Aquaman.  In the letters column of SD #49, Erik explains himself.  "As for needing the cash, that's not the case either!  Savage Dragon more than pays the bills.  The truth is, I missed playing in the DC and Marvel playgrounds and I thought if I did some outside writing for those two establishments I might get some attention for the old fin-head in addition to having a swell time."

Here's a guy who helped found Image, the one guy who still does his creator owned book TO THIS DAY, the main guy other than Kirkman who most often rails against the big two, and here he was in 1998 going back to the big two for two very good reasons.  To have fun and to bring a bigger audience over to his book.  Fairly interesting and relevant I should say.

An excellent find, karma for that, although I'm sure someone will say that Erik was "not as mature and couldn't make sensible decisions" back then.  Hell, the man himself might play it off that way if you brought it up to him. 

[Dallan]

PRIMUS SUCKS!

Thanks for the Primus, Vince!

And karma to you, cD, for pulling out the Primus war cry!

Several years ago, after having worshiped Primus for many years, my band at the time had the incredibly good fortune to share the stage with Les Claypool's solo band at an event in San Francisco.  The weird thing for me was that his band was on before us.  After standing there on the side of the stage being mesmerized by their performance, I got to meet him backstage right before we went on.  I was so nervous to finally shake this legend's hand that the only thing I could think to say was, "Fuck you, Les, for making us follow that!"  
Real smooth, Dallan.  Real smooth.

[Andy Jewett]

I haven't had a chance to sit down and read all the posts in this thread so it may have already been said, but... the Watchmen trailer does have the phrase "based on the greatest graphic novel of all time" or something along those lines... I wonder how much of an impact that has actually had on the sales of the trade, I've heard they are flying off the shelves though.

[Wood]

Karma to you all for today's conversations. I'm heading on vacation tomorrow morning and our realtor is having an open house while we're gone so it was a lot of hump busting today to have the house in pristine show form.

Mike -- Glad you're aboard. Sorry if I fucked up and said Freddie and KiKi (sp?) had a baby, I thought that was in the offing. My bad. But Jamal Igle does, and you have to pay a mortgage and club baby seals for dinner, so I got two out of three right.

[Dave Wyndorf]

I won't stop drinking while we're recording. The show is trying to simulate four friends sitting at a bar chewing the fat. I think it' a hell of a lot more entertaining than the four of us reading dry essays or all agreeing with each other.

This subject was one that was bound to bring out some passionate points of view, and it did. Sorry if I sounded like a bitter old man.

For the record, I had one glass of bourbon. The simple fact of the show is that we record late at night, and I'm not that lucid after 11:00.

Some LCSs deserve poop to be thrown at them.

Ohh kaaay.....

[templar]

Just found out the Kirkman video was actually an internet teaser tralier for the new Season of 24. When the first episode starts they show the Kirkman video and then at 9.02 mins the camera pans to the right and theres Alan Rickman holding a gun to Tod Mcfarlens head. 

[Dallan]

Just found out the Kirkman video was actually an internet teaser tralier for the new Season of 24. When the first episode starts they show the Kirkman video and then at 9.02 mins the camera pans to the right and theres Alan Rickman holding a gun to Tod Mcfarlens head. 

I'm home from my gig, drinking a Vesper martini, perusing the 11 O' forum, just minding my own bidniz and you gotta go n' make me shoot gin out ma nose!   

Bravo.