11OCC Episode Archive

[HeroesMask]

I'm not sure where that rumor originates from, but it certainly isn't the case that all depictions of nazi regalia is forbidden in Germany. They have some pretty strict laws about wearing swastikas and the likes in public, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, there have been plenty of WWII movies produced in Germany (including Der Untergang and Das Boat), and all of the ones you mentionde have been shown in German theaters, so I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about.


EDIT: Just to clarify, the legal issue isn't about the depiction of the Red Skull on-screen, but rather the merchandising. You can't sell toys and similar items in Germany depicting Nazi symbols like the Swastika, and this would of course impact stuff like Red Skull posters and figurines, if he were to adorn those symbols. For an example of how this has been handled in other cases, check out this Inglorious Basterds movie poster.

The merchandising thing makes a lot of sense.  I get that. 

It doesn't bother me that much as long as they acknowledge the fact that they are a faction or allied with the Nazis.  Like Chris and Wood said, history is what it is and I would hate for young people to not understand the realities of WWII.

[Jeppe]

The merchandising thing makes a lot of sense.  I get that. 

It doesn't bother me that much as long as they acknowledge the fact that they are a faction or allied with the Nazis.  Like Chris and Wood said, history is what it is and I would hate for young people to not understand the realities of WWII.

Oh, I agree. I think the problem is larger than the movie though, as it seems that Marvel is sort of phasing out Nazy Germany from their universe, replacing it with the Hydra menace. What I tried to say earlier is that I don't think this has anything to do with the German market per se, but rather with modern-day pop cultural sensibilities.

[Julian Lytle]

But wasn't Hydra just Nazis anyway? What's wrong with merging the two groups.

[edfantom]

The Red Skulll is a Nazi...the Mars Attacks! comics were/are awesome sauce...I wish I was at C2E2 but I'm stuck in Pittsburgh because I suck...make a point to always check out new #1 issues from Image...worship boobies...and like I always do, make a note of every manga and web comic Vince recommends, because they're always awesome.

And while I'm not sure if he was mentioned in this episode or not (I'll listen to it again later), check out issue #2 of Hail Hydra! drawn by Tom Scioli...if only to support Tom & the fact that his drawing style is awesome.

[SimonH]

Oh, I agree. I think the problem is larger than the movie though, as it seems that Marvel is sort of phasing out Nazy Germany from their universe, replacing it with the Hydra menace. What I tried to say earlier is that I don't think this has anything to do with the German market per se, but rather with modern-day pop cultural sensibilities.

But is it a question of whitewashing, or is it just a means to deal with comic book continuity?  Iron Man's origin has to get updated to Afghanistan to make sense in a new film. Perhaps tying Cap into a fictional foe allows them to decouple him from specific history and gives them fudge room with timelines?  Helps you avoid the "Magneto Problem", as it were.  Granted Cap is a little different than Magneto, just because he can get put on ice for an indefinite amount of time.

Not saying I like that approach, just one more issue I have with comics continuity, but at some point credulity about timelines strains and some retconning has to be done.

[timber-munki]

I see the de-Nazification in the Cap movie as a decision made by Disney for various commercial reasons. The German market is a factor, as is the wish to avoid seen to be selling swastikas to kids, also the possibility of  offending the Indian market, where the swastika originated and has a completely different meaning to what it does in the West.

I think there is also an awareness that they are treading a very fine line when telling fantastical adventure stories with a backdrop of the real-life horror carried out by the Nazis and using HYDRA helps them side-step claims of trivialising the events and the awkward question of why no super-hero stopped the real atrocities.

I can understand their desire to avoid the flak they could have received if they hadn't made the change, I hope that the Red Skull & HYDRAs motivations in the movie are portrayed as human in origin - they are bad people, just not Nazis, which would IMO reflect Kirby & Simon's intentions when they created the characters 70 years ago through the prism of modern sensibilities.

Shame that this means we won't get a monthly Captain America: Nazi Puncher

[Dave Faust]

[SimonH]

I think there is also an awareness that they are treading a very fine line when telling fantastical adventure stories with a backdrop of the real-life horror carried out by the Nazis and using HYDRA helps them side-step claims of trivialising the events and the awkward question of why no super-hero stopped the real atrocities.

I would buy that argument more if we didn't already have a long tradition of Nazis as Hollywood bad guys,  I mean Indiana Jones never had a problem with the Nazi punching, or even selling Nazi action figures.  Have we really become that sensitive?  I mean, I'm assuming they are targeting a PG rating, and if your early teen moviegoer can't tell the difference between real life history and a superhero flick, we have a bigger problem than awkward questions.

[Former Poet Laureate]

I'm more concerned that Cap's helmet now sports a chin strap. Seriously, how can the mighty Red Skull be intimidated by "chin strap guy"?

[Doug!]

Your street pass is REVOKED!

You can compare the Wu and PE, you'd been best served by going with UTFO vs Tribe Called Quest.

And B:TAS is telling Batman stories correct? And it does it successfully and not all cynical like Miller's take.


I do think comics these days say things about the world some maybe not a blatant Miller's Batman.

Please note he screwed up Superman. I'm siding with King DAP, that Year One is too pretty.

Batman: TAS tells some of the greatest Batman stories in any other medium.  They took all the characters and distilled them down to what makes them great.  I'd put that series up against any other Batman story (regardless of the medium).

If I have to choose a comic though?  The Killing Joke.

[pdaaat]

I'm more concerned that Cap's helmet now sports a chin strap. Seriously, how can the mighty Red Skull be intimidated by "chin strap guy"?

The chin strap throws me, but in general I am relieved to see how the costume has translated into film so far.

[Kamakazi010654]

The chin strap throws me, but in general I am relieved to see how the costume has translated into film so far.

Agreed, I think they took a good approach in making it seem a bit more practical and less "super-heroey". I think making Cap as realistic as possible, given the fact that he is a superhero, is a good move.