11OCC Episode Archive

[David]

that was in the first one

Wasn't all that hot then, either.

[deadcowaroma]

LotR is better series than SW

Ughhhhhh....I may be down on Star Wars at the present, but there's no way those steaming pile of crap Lord of the Rings movies are better.

Maybe I just don't like fantasy movies...or at least ones that are made on laptops.

[Julian Lytle]

Fair enough Julian. But in the same vein just because Julian Lytle doesn't think Star Wars is important as art or as a groundbreaking step in filmmaking doesn't make it so. There is no shortage of support that says you are not right on this. I find on this site that when you make a claim and someone challenges you on it you just change direction. So, rather than get into a pointess  "I say vs You say" groundless debate, I pointed to the Academy Awards an example of recognition in film as one example. If you prefer to look at IMDB's Top 250 Film list (on the internet which, unlike the Academy you don't trust, wasn't around in 1977) that's cool (btw, SW: A New Hope is #16, Empire is #11). If you want to look at some other film measure, please do and share. They are tons of things you can refer to. Opinions are great. Everyone has one. I am just saying go further.

I am glad you like the F&F franchise. A lot of people do. I've seen most of them and they are fun stuff.
A few more seem to appreciate Star Wars.

Did I say that just because I'm don't pray to the force that by royal decree that everyone must now think SW sucks?
Cause I missed where I typed that. The reason I picked on the Academy is that its a group of people from that industry that changes because people die and new people are added. So maybe I don't think that an academy from 1968 would give it it's due or not and maybe the academy of 1988 might have given it best picture or shut it out. You can't tell. But I do know that as time goes on people openly question some choices that have been made (like I expect they will with the King's Speech). I'm not a big fan of IMDB for other than letting me check out Crew and Cast. So really that doesn't hold that much weight with me either.

I know that me being critical of Star Wars isn't popular. For many it is a important part of growing up. I respect what it did technically in regards to Special Effects and Sound. It changed the landscape toward the end of the New Hollywood era in terms of money and licensing. In the end I think that the Star Wars is a decent Space Opera and the older I get the more of the shark biting I see as I saw more things. I saw the old Flash Gordon. I saw the Hidden Fortress. Hell I saw those before I even saw Star Wars. I saw the other two, I played some video games (a form in which I have enjoyed SW more than film). A whole bunch of people enjoy SW, that I know but it also had 30+ years to build and coax that audience and let that audience pass it on to their children. Maybe after about 30+ years and some flying cars F&F will have a sizable audience too.

AFI only has Star Wars on it's list at #13

I don't think I'm changing direction when I'm commenting on something but at time I also don't want to take a thread over. It ain't my forum-it's my homies' forum. That or time goes between post and really I'm thinking of something else.

And with this I might be done with this thread-Sorry King DAP, my Ninja Vince, Wood and Chris for making this thread about movies cause I like Pirates a little bit.

[Adam O. Pruett]

the movie is more than just a collection of fight scenes

Of course, but the point in bringing up Fist of Legend is that what went on with the choreography is indicative of what went on with many other elements.

even if they borrowed that choreography, they put it at the service of a story quite different than it's original source so I give them credit for that.

For me, the "quite different story" is not grounds enough for justification. I'm more interested in somebody who has something new to say than I am a "new spin" on something that's already been said.

For the whole fusion-of-elements argument to fly, the work in question really has to be bringing something new/profound/important to the table. I thought what the Matrix brought to the table were some pretty spectacular special effects -- and little more, sorry to say. But again -- that's just me.

I certainly don't want to make it into more than it was

And that's really all I've objected to; I haven't really said much derogatory about the film other than I don't think it deserves the pedestal on which pop culture has placed it. And I don't mean to say that it's the worst of offenders by any stretch. It's quite a fun movie.

[JimN]

Of course, but the point in bringing up Fist of Legend is that what went on with the choreography is indicative of what went on with many other elements.

If that's the case, perhaps I'm just not familiar enough with the other sources that were so directly ripped off.

For me, the "quite different story" is not grounds enough for justification. I'm more interested in somebody who has something new to say than I am a "new spin" on something that's already been said.

For the whole fusion-of-elements argument to fly, the work in question really has to be bringing something new/profound/important to the table. I thought what the Matrix brought to the table were some pretty spectacular special effects -- and little more, sorry to say. But again -- that's just me.

I understand what you're saying. The main disagreement here seems to be about whether the film was groundbreaking or not and "groundbreaking" strikes me as a somewhat subjective term. I think the film broke new ground in the popular culture of movies by combining elements from other films, and other mediums, into something new to popular film. In other words, I think The Matrix's particular fusion of elements was the something new it brought to the table. I can see how and why you'd disagree and honestly, with something as subjective as this, I don't know if there's really a right or wrong answer but I respect your views on this.

And that's really all I've objected to; I haven't really said much derogatory about the film other than I don't think it deserves the pedestal on which pop culture has placed it. And I don't mean to say that it's the worst of offenders by any stretch. It's quite a fun movie.

It is a fun movie but I wouldn't put it on a pedestal either. I just like it. However, as ideas and innovations filter down through popular culture, it's often the people/works that did the popularizing who end up on a pedestal as opposed to the true innovators. It happens in music, movies, fiction, etc.

Jim

[leafinsectman (Dan)]

No love for the House Party trilogy?





Seriously though, Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock/Voyage Home (the unofficial trilogy).

Also, the Toy Story trilogy is fun times. If you don't like it you have no heart.

[New Mutant]

For real, that is so embarassing. This man's credibility went flipping out the window behind this lil temper tantrum. You just know that he screams at his wife, kids, his dogs, and all of US like that on the regular. By that age, you think he'd learn what to do with all that anger.

[Dave Faust]

Can't believe that one, I missed all of this trilogy talk and two, no one has posted this:

[Farrell]

Can't believe that one, I missed all of this trilogy talk and two, no one has posted this:

I've still only seen Oldboy from the revenge trilogy.  I suck.  

It's not high art, but I really like Raimi's Evil Dead trilogy too.

Batman is worth mentioning, I think.  I'm not the fan of Batman Begins that many people are, but the first two films were good, and I liked The Dark Knight also.  Just pretend Joel Schumacher never existed and it's all good...  

Lastly, I'm sure there are bigger fans out there of this film series but nobody has mentioned it, and that's borderline crazy:

[Jeppe]

Can't believe that one, I missed all of this trilogy talk and two, no one has posted this:

Oldboy is one of my favorite movies period
Unfortunately I don't think the others two hold up that well in comparison.

Like I said above, Battles Without Honor and Humanity is another favorite crime series of mine, and while it's not my favorite Miike work, the Dead or Alive movies are criminally underrated.







To expand the discussion even further, I think another great and very underrated series is Lars Von Trier's Europa Trilogy (should be right up Dave's and Vince's alley).




However, my favorite trilogy of all time (I know I keep inventing new categories for my "favorites") has got to be Wong Kar-wai's romance series - Days of Being Wild - In the Mood for Love - 2046. Brilliant stuff 






I'll try to stop now. Sorry for filling up the thread with my ranting, but I'm almost more of a film nerd than a comics buff 

[Ojayy]

I enjoyed F5 a little better then Thor. Thor kicked ass and all but F5 was just more fun.
But if were talking Trilogy, Back to the future. I can watch any part anytime no complaints.

[Ojayy]

I didn't say it out of RESPECT for a lot of people, not the least of which my brother, DAP. Think it silly if you will, but that word hurts a lot of people. Didn't want to chance doing the same to people I love. If that makes me look silly, silly I shall be. 

I totally understand that.

[thunderduck]

Can Vince B. get a mic that works for a whole episode... PLEASE???