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Author Topic: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?  (Read 353 times)
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steve bryant
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #20 on: 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Quote from: JimN on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
Adam, I just have to say you've been making some great posts in this thread.

Agreed. Karma to Adam.

Quote from: JimN on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
As far as the line... when using photo-reference other than one's own photography, I think the line lies in the interpretation and re-working of the source material. Changing reference until it's not obviously recognizable is quite different from saying ""If you fooled me, then it's okay". The key word is change. If the source material has been changed to a point where it's no longer easily recognizable then it's probably also been changed enough to no longer qualify as a plagiarized image. Context and composition make a big difference too.

and Karma to you for communicating it more succinctly and cohesively than I could/did.
« Last Edit: 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 by steve bryant » Logged

Adam O. Pruett
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #21 on: 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Quote from: steve bryant on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
Well, him and Burt Reynolds in Gator.

Obviously!  Cheesy


Quote from: steve bryant on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
I have no idea where the line is for others. Personally, I'm not trying to "fool" anyone.

I know you aren't. And this should go without saying by now, but my main point is that there is a line (regardless of whether we can find it or agree on its location). There are extremes in approaches to comic art as there are with anything else. My second point is -- I would bet that many people who have expressed indifference toward Land's appropriation of other peoples' work might change their tune if it was their work being appropriated.



Quote from: steve bryant on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
I'm working in service to the imagery I see in my head and trying to capture that...I use my own drawing abilities, my own photos, screen captures, Poser, Sketchup, and the assistance of friends and peers to achieve it (within the boundaries of the copyright law). Hopefully, the end result of such disparate sources forges something new.

I think what you're describing is an entirely ethical way of doing things, and more than that, it's a commendable way of doing things -- because you're utilizing all the tools in your toolbox to serve your story the best way possible. That's exactly what creators should do.


Quote from: steve bryant on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
On a divergent tangent, how do you feel about guys who don't swipe a photo, or trace a single piece of artwork, but co-opt a particular artist's entire style? There are plenty of guys who are nothing more than Adam Hughes or Frank Cho clones, for instance. I can't count the number of guys who are doing their best to be Hughes the line artist or Hughes the digital painter. And there's one guy sets up at shows, doing a Cho riff and selling Burroughs Mars/Dejah Thoris prints and sketchbooks. None of these guys swipe particular images—at least not that I've seen—but what they do seems far more dangerous to me. They attempt to replicate another artist's style entirely, from style to subject matter.

I think most artists who really have chops tend to evolve beyond being clones. Look at the difference between Bill Sienkiewicz's earlier stuff compared to the style he became famous for. It's not uncommon for artists to ape a particular style while they are still learning -- for some it really is just a part of their development.


Quote from: steve bryant on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
I realize I may be on think ice here. But I like to think that, while I wear my influences on my sleeve, I'm more of an amalgam of Dave Stevens, Mark Schultz, Al Williamson, Alex Raymond, and Hal Foster, than a direct imitator of any one of them specifically.

No, I think you're totally right, and the bolded part is actually how I would describe you, myself. Many great artists, if not all, have styles that are jumbled combinations of their influences. You can see Mort Meskin in Ditko's line just as you can see Jack Davis in Tony Moore's, and so on and so on, ad infinitum. And that's fine. That's the wonderfully traceable lineage of art.
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Adam O. Pruett
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #22 on: 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Quote from: JimN on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
Adam, I just have to say you've been making some great posts in this thread.

Aw, shucks. EmbarrassedAnd after I promised myself I wasn't gonna post anymore. I gotta get back to work!


Quote from: JimN on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
As far as the line... when using photo-reference other than one's own photography, I think the line lies in the interpretation and re-working of the source material. Changing reference until it's not obviously recognizable is quite different from saying ""If you fooled me, then it's okay". The key word is change. If the source material has been changed to a point where it's no longer easily recognizable then it's probably also been changed enough to no longer qualify as a plagiarized image. Context and composition make a big difference too.

This is a good clarification, and it's something that I can get behind.
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #23 on: 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

This has been a great discussion to read through.

My two cents is that this is a discussion that has been around for ages, just the names have changed.
From Warhol, Lictenstien, even to Rembrant. Many of Rembrant's studio artist copied his style so well that it's hard to tell which are his or his students.

But I feel this circles back to intent. The studio artist intent was to learn how to paint through copying a master. Lictenstein and Warhol were making social commentary through their art.

What is Greg Land's intent? I think at its base, his art exists to illustrate a story. How he gets there is up to him. Whether or not he "traces" is between him and the person how owns the original.
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steve bryant
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #24 on: 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Quote from: Adam O. Pruett on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
I think most artists who really have chops tend to evolve beyond being clones. Look at the difference between Bill Sienkiewicz's earlier stuff compared to the style he became famous for. It's not uncommon for artists to ape a particular style while they are still learning -- for some it really is just a part of their development.


Agreed. However, there are some guys who, like I said, work so hard duplicating an artist's subject matter, as well as technique, that it seems to be less a learning proposition or a reflection of admiration, and more a situation of trying to cash in on an audience (possibly lessening the original artist's "shelf life"). That just bigs me, but it may be my own personal windmill.   Wink
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Adam O. Pruett
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #25 on: 04:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Quote from: Bluenote77 on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
My two cents is that this is a discussion that has been around for ages, just the names have changed.
From Warhol, Lictenstien, even to Rembrant. Many of Rembrant's studio artist copied his style so well that it's hard to tell which are his or his students.

It's hard for me to be okay with Lichtenstein because we're talking about a guy who quite literally made millions by swiping the drawings of people who often didn't have two pennies to rub together themselves.


Quote from: steve bryant on 03:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
Agreed. However, there are some guys who, like I said, work so hard duplicating an artist's subject matter, as well as technique, that it seems to be less a learning proposition or a reflection of admiration, and more a situation of trying to cash in on an audience (possibly lessening the original artist's "shelf life"). That just bigs me, but it may be my own personal windmill.   Wink

No, I agree completely.

Okay -- that's it for me for a bit. I really am going to try and finally get some work done. Travazz, sorry for the thread hijack...
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #26 on: 04:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Quote from: Adam O. Pruett on 04:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011
It's hard for me to be okay with Lichtenstein because we're talking about a guy who quite literally made millions by swiping the drawings of people who often didn't have two pennies to rub together themselves.

I understand what you mean, however I think he made his millions because people bought into his comment on mass production during this time, and his thoughts that comics at the time was a representation of this idea. Like I said, his intent was to make a statement, the artist's intent was probably to make an honest buck in an industry that didn't pay well.
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #27 on: 05:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

This is a great thread, gentlemen! I don't have an artistic bone in my body, but I love to follow your highly qualified discussions of these issues. Thanks for that.

As for Greg Land specifically, I'll just add this link as a collection of more or less well-known material documenting his use of photo-references, other artists work, as well as the reuse of his own work. I won't make any judgment, but be aware that the link is biased, to say the least.
http://jimsmashextended.blogspot.com/2008/07/greg-land-tracing-swiping-recycling.html

Here's a couple of other examples.




If I have to add my own two cents on the issue of Greg Land specifically, I'll say that the man clearly does have talent, making it even more of a bummer that he feels the need to revert to the tricks (for the lack of a better term) documented above.
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #28 on: 05:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

Thanks for the great conversation that is going on.  I posted this last night before I went to bed and came back from work today and BOOM!  I'm glad that I posted this, and thanks for bringing up Greg Land.  I admittedly confused Greg Land and Greg Horn in my mind, but both situations work. 
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #29 on: 11:06 PM | Thursday, June 16, 2011 »

The difference is legal representation.

That's my guess.
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #30 on: 08:06 AM | Friday, June 17, 2011 »

Man, that Rob Granito is a strange fellow.
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Re: What is the difference between Rob Granito and Greg Horn?
« Reply #31 on: 10:06 AM | Friday, June 17, 2011 »

I'm pretty sure Greg Horn and Greg Land know how to spell.

They probably understand grammar too.
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