The Bullpen

[Papercut]

I was having an interesting conversation with a learned friend that brought this up in my addled brain again and wanted to get other's opinions.

If you found out that a creator you enjoyed solely for the work he (or she) produced, and had no real info on the creator outside of said work, was actually a raging asshole IRL, would that color your feelings on their work? Would you be able to maintain a Church and State separation of opinion?

Or even from a different angle, if there's a talented creator whose philosophies of life or personal ideologies are diametrically opposed to your own, does that affect how you view their work or how much you'd be willing to support their books?

I'm sure we all have times when we can't believe so-and-so said or did something so alarming to our own sensibilities that our feelings may have soured on the creator themselves, but how often will that seep into our appreciation of the work they've done?  I'm sure several names popped into your head during this post.

So basically, are you able to separate a creator from their craft?

Just curious.

[Wood]

Sure. I appreciate Dave Sim's work; but think some of his world views are asinine. Neal Adams is a certifiable loon, but damned if he can draw the hell out of some superheroes!

But it's not always easy for me. Now that I know Liefeld is an evangelical; it would take an act of god  for me to buy a book of his ever again.

[Equinox]

Supposedly, John Byrne can be a raging asshole, but that doesn't stop me from loving his classic work from early to the middle of his career.  Good example of Neal Adams, who should love the new Brendan Fraiser "Journey to the Center of the Earth" movie, but again, I loves me some classic Neal Adams.

I think that comics being a medium that the finished product can be enjoyed without having to make a "connection" to the creators (such as seeing them in person, hearing them speak, etc...) lends itself very well to distancing the creator from the material.  As great of a writer as he can be, if I had to see Alan Moore every time I read one of his books, that would kill the deal for me right there.

[evaD]

I wouldn't expect to agree with their ideologies or religious beliefs - I'm usually "an army of one" when it comes to those things and so, an used to it. Translation: I'm a loon, too. I think it depends on the type of raging jackass we're talking about though. For example, creator is a know pedophile: not buying their work. Creator is a Bush supporter (I'm not), let the work speak for itself. By the way, I'm not trying to draw comparisons between Bush and pedophiles, or any of these other things just putting them in as they come to mind. Creator is a raging racist, gotta take a pass on the book.

A real life example: Won't go see a Tom Cruise movie. Why? The guy is (IMO) in free fall and coming untethered from reality. He's married to and has a baby with a young lady who wasn't even alive when he made his first major movie. His behavior is erratic and more then a little unpleasant. And he's too out there with it all. I can't separate him from his characters any longer and am thinking about that when I see him.

If that happens with a creator in the comic field it would be no different.

[Wood]

I wouldn't expect to agree with their ideologies or religious beliefs - I'm usually "an army of one" when it comes to those things and so, an used to it. Translation: I'm a loon, too. I think it depends on the type of raging jackass we're talking about though. For example, creator is a know pedophile: not buying their work. Creator is a Bush supporter (I'm not), let the work speak for itself. By the way, I'm not trying to draw comparisons between Bush and pedophiles, or any of these other things just putting them in as they come to mind. Creator is a raging racist, gotta take a pass on the book.

A real life example: Won't go see a Tom Cruise movie. Why? The guy is (IMO) in free fall and coming untethered from reality. He's married to and has a baby with a young lady who wasn't even alive when he made his first major movie. His behavior is erratic and more then a little unpleasant. And he's too out there with it all. I can't separate him from his characters any longer and am thinking about that when I see him.

If that happens with a creator in the comic field it would be no different.

I think this is personal preference and there's no right or wrong answer.

For me, I won't support something I think is dogmatic of the beliefs I have a problem with; but have generally been good at looking past a creators idiosyncrasies otherwise.

For example, I didn't go see Battlefield Earth, but I'll gladly see a film with John Travolta in it otherwise. I will still order the Deadpool Classic TPB but I won't buy Liefeld's Rapture comic.

Cerebus is going to be an interesting litmus test. I'm not yet up to the stuff where he apparently got himself labeled a misogynist and wonder if that will cloud my ability to carry on.

 

[Papercut]

Yes, no right or wrong answers here, just curious how others would react.



So after posting the question and not answering it myself, I was able to think about it as I tried to get to sleep last night. Here's what I came up with:

The Old Masters
When it comes to creators that I've read long before the internet existed and may have since learned that they were actually human with all the flaws and idiosyncrasies that come along with that condition, I've come to the conclusion that I really don't care. Like Chris mentioned, no matter what Byrne does, his past, present and future work will stand on its own merit with me. If anything, it may quell a lot of the enthusiasm I have for the creator as a person, but beyond scenarios like Dave's pedophile example, I don't think their personal belief system will change my mind on the comics they make.


The New Blood
While I agree again with Chris that reading comics can be an insular experience, I think we can all agree that the comic community as a whole has opened up a lot in the last 5-10 years. Access to creators at cons or message boards or in the enthusiast press is continually growing in direct proportion with the number of potential opportunities these creators have to "offend" their readers. And frankly, it doesn't take a lot to get some comic fans in an uproar.

That being said, when I hear or see a creator that I may not be that familiar with treating other creators or fans badly at a con (or whatever the issue may be) I'm far less inclined to give their work a look, and even less ambition to give them any money. I can't explain why, other than stubborn principle and I'm not willing to reward people for behaving badly.




So overall, I wouldn't disparage them for their beliefs or political ideology -- to each their own -- but basically, for me, it seems it comes down to a combination of first impressions and the severity of contrast of the creator's sensibilities with my own. If I knew their work first and held it in high regard, it'd take a lot to get me to change that view.


And on a side note, I'm in complete agreement with Dave's Tom Cruise example…I cannot watch a movie with him in it right now. He drives me absolutely nuts and there's no cognitive way I can separate him with the feelings I have for him now.

[El Dave]

I can't do it. When someone starts mouthing off about how they hate gays or whatever, I don't want to give them my money, regardless of how good the work is.

[DGoodhart]

Sometimes... it really does depend on how connected I am to the work itself...

For instance I've never been really offended by anything that John Byrne has said at all, I think he's a guy that might push some extremes in what he says, but that's all it is, the words itself...

On the other hand, after hearing Jeph Loeb on some recent episodes of Word Balloon, I was less than enchanted at the end of it and honestly at this point don't necessarily care too much if I read anything further from Loeb again...

And I remember reading an interview with John Buscema in which he basically thought it was stupid that he was drawing stuff like the Avengers, which at the time just made me even wonder why he was working in comics at all at the time...

[Equinox]

I wouldn't expect to agree with their ideologies or religious beliefs - I'm usually "an army of one" when it comes to those things and so, an used to it. Translation: I'm a loon, too. I think it depends on the type of raging jackass we're talking about though. For example, creator is a know pedophile: not buying their work. Creator is a Bush supporter (I'm not), let the work speak for itself. By the way, I'm not trying to draw comparisons between Bush and pedophiles, or any of these other things just putting them in as they come to mind. Creator is a raging racist, gotta take a pass on the book.

A real life example: Won't go see a Tom Cruise movie. Why? The guy is (IMO) in free fall and coming untethered from reality. He's married to and has a baby with a young lady who wasn't even alive when he made his first major movie. His behavior is erratic and more then a little unpleasant. And he's too out there with it all. I can't separate him from his characters any longer and am thinking about that when I see him.

If that happens with a creator in the comic field it would be no different.

I think this is personal preference and there's no right or wrong answer.

For me, I won't support something I think is dogmatic of the beliefs I have a problem with; but have generally been good at looking past a creators idiosyncrasies otherwise.

For example, I didn't go see Battlefield Earth, but I'll gladly see a film with John Travolta in it otherwise. I will still order the Deadpool Classic TPB but I won't buy Liefeld's Rapture comic.

In this vein, I'm curious to see how "Prince Caspian" performs compared to the sub-par performance of "The Golden Compass".  While one movie is based on a book series with Judeo-Christian similarities sprinkled throughout the books, compared to the "God is Dead\Doesn't Exist" views of Phillip Pullman.  Honestly, I have a copy of Golden Compass at home, but I just haven't gotten around to watching it yet; the wife didn't want to let the kids see it in the theaters and I don't know if she's real keen on seeing it at all.

[Equinox]

The New Blood
While I agree again with Chris that reading comics can be an insular experience, I think we can all agree that the comic community as a whole has opened up a lot in the last 5-10 years. Access to creators at cons or message boards or in the enthusiast press is continually growing in direct proportion with the number of potential opportunities these creators have to "offend" their readers. And frankly, it doesn't take a lot to get some comic fans in an uproar.

That being said, when I hear or see a creator that I may not be that familiar with treating other creators or fans badly at a con (or whatever the issue may be) I'm far less inclined to give their work a look, and even less ambition to give them any money. I can't explain why, other than stubborn principle and I'm not willing to reward people for behaving badly.

I think part of the situation that skews our viewpoints is that being active participants in comic related forums means that we have regular access to information and opinions that are not normally seen by most comic readers and definitely were not available in what many of us would consider to be their "golden ages" of comics.  While I was growing up, I might see a few print interviews with various creators, but from what I recall, they were in books that were published by the companies they were working for.  Of course, this generates a certain positve slant to how the conversation would go.  Even the older fanzines, while I have not read any of the them, I am assuming they too would have to put a positive spin on their conversations with creators because if they didn't then I'm sure they could kiss off any future interview opportunities.

With the advent of the Internet and the message boards & blogs, I think that the insight that we now have available into the comics world is much akin to something that we might see in reality TV.  Of course we don't have cameras following the creators or comics publishers 24\7, but because there are so many possible opportunities to gather information and impressions about comics creators from con appearances, book signings, podcast interviews, etc..., comics are now being produced from within a "fishbowl" instead of behind the curtain of the all-powerful Oz.  This creates situations where the "warts" of all creators come under direct scrutiny of the people who are most likely to spread the information as quickly as possible and will dissect that same information down to its smallest parts.  Some of that minutiae will end up being things that we agree or disagree with, just like we would for any other person.  And just like we would for anyone else, we can decide to associate with them or put a comfortable distance between them at our discretion.

[Paul]

But it's not always easy for me. Now that I know Liefeld is an evangelical; it would take an act of god  for me to buy a book of his ever again.

Of the many reasons I wouldn't buy a Liefeld book, I wouldn't think that this would be one of them, but yeah, the Rapture book just seems off to me.

[evaD]

I can't do it. When someone starts mouthing off about how they hate gays or whatever, I don't want to give them my money, regardless of how good the work is.

I think most of us are in agreement: acting like a raging ass (bigot, extreme criminal behavior, and other things of that nature) = not buying the book. What about the other slightly lesser things people do? Rude behavior at a con (generally offensive like talking down to people, ignoring fans, borish behavior, not terroristic or discriminatory), or disrespectful comments in an interview or on the creator's own website, things like that.  And El Dave, I'm not picking on you here, your comments were the most to the point and seemed to sum up the general consensus. And really some of you have already answered this, but does anyone else get turned off from a title you're already reading if the creator is too full of themselves or acts rudely at a con? I think if I'm already reading and enjoying a title I'm a lot more forgiving then if I haven't read anything by the creator yet.