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Author Topic: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56  (Read 4389 times)
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #180 on: 11:05 PM | Tuesday, May 19, 2009 »

You're always nutty, Vince.  That's why I like ya. Thumbs Up
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #181 on: 06:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009 »

Quote from: David on 09:05 AM | Friday, May 15, 2009
I understand that.  I'd like to see some common sense applied here.  If you are publishing a comic book with a zombie fucking a cow wouldn't a heads up be warranted?
I think that there should DEFINITELY be some kind of warning, not rating on all comics with adult language or material.  Just a little Parental Advisory on the cover to let me know as a parent that there could be stuff in this book I don't want my kid to see. For instance at free comic book day, my wife let my son pick up a copy of Atomic Robo.  There was no advisory on it at all, but there was some gun violence and words in it that I felt were not appropriate for my 6 year old.  A warning to tell me or my wife to look at this comic, which seems like a 6 year old's dream of robots and dinosaurs, would have been nice.  So Vince, David, and Wood, I support you!  Chris...  No
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Matt H.O.W.L.
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #182 on: 09:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009 »

Quote from: beefy99 on 06:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009
I think that there should DEFINITELY be some kind of warning, not rating on all comics with adult language or material.  Just a little Parental Advisory on the cover to let me know as a parent that there could be stuff in this book I don't want my kid to see. For instance at free comic book day, my wife let my son pick up a copy of Atomic Robo.  There was no advisory on it at all, but there was some gun violence and words in it that I felt were not appropriate for my 6 year old.  A warning to tell me or my wife to look at this comic, which seems like a 6 year old's dream of robots and dinosaurs, would have been nice.  So Vince, David, and Wood, I support you!  Chris...  No
This is so nebulous, any and every comic would/could have it. Determining what could be deemed worthy of an advisement sounds like an impossible task: I don't care if my kid's comic has guys fighting terrorists with weapons, but I don't want him reading about some fruity magician walking around in Danskins doing the Satan's work....etc.
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #183 on: 09:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009 »

Quote from: Matt H.O.W.L. on 09:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009
This is so nebulous, any and every comic would/could have it. Determining what could be deemed worthy of an advisement sounds like an impossible task: I don't care if my kid's comic has guys fighting terrorists with weapons, but I don't want him reading about some fruity magician walking around in Danskins doing the Satan's work....etc.

Then why not a label it with what's under the cover?  Extreme Violence.  Partial Nudity.  Strong Language.  Adult Situations.  Etc.
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #184 on: 11:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009 »

Quote from: David on 09:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009
Then why not a label it with what's under the cover?  Extreme Violence.  Partial Nudity.  Strong Language.  Adult Situations.  Etc.
I have no problem with that. It's the ambiguous terms like "stuff" that make me wary. I think once you allow faceless people to determine if something's adult or not, you're giving away too much freedom of expression. If it were something akin to TV ratings telling you what's inside, specifically, then we can talk. BTW, why does Family Guy always tell me there are dramatic situations? Language, Yes. Violence, Yes. Drama?  Huh?
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #185 on: 01:05 AM | Thursday, May 21, 2009 »

Quote from: Matt H.O.W.L. on 11:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009
I have no problem with that. It's the ambiguous terms like "stuff" that make me wary. I think once you allow faceless people to determine if something's adult or not, you're giving away too much freedom of expression. If it were something akin to TV ratings telling you what's inside, specifically, then we can talk. BTW, why does Family Guy always tell me there are dramatic situations? Language, Yes. Violence, Yes. Drama?  Huh?

When Peter landed on, and killed, his father, who cursed him as a stinking drunk with his dying breath?  And then the stunning revelation that Peter's father was, in fact, an Irish barfly?  That, my friend, is drama. 

Nah, I don't know why either.  There are a couple of ESRB ratings like that, too.  "Suggestive Themes" popped up in the strangest places.
« Last Edit: 02:05 AM | Thursday, May 21, 2009 by Farrell » Logged

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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #186 on: 01:05 AM | Thursday, May 21, 2009 »

Hey guys, loved episode 56 as always.   You mentioned getting none-comic book fans into comics during the mail.  I totally agree with Fables.  I actually have a co-worker (female) who came to me asking for some comics.  She was bored.  I first started out with books like Pride of Baghdad and Local and well, they were okay, but she was not blown away.  I then gave her Fables 1 and 2 and she was hooked.  She really connected with the characters because, well, as you said, she already knew them.  So ya, Fables is great for these people.

Again, great podcast, keep it up!
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #187 on: 06:05 AM | Thursday, May 21, 2009 »

Quote from: Matt H.O.W.L. on 11:05 PM | Wednesday, May 20, 2009
I have no problem with that. It's the ambiguous terms like "stuff" that make me wary. I think once you allow faceless people to determine if something's adult or not, you're giving away too much freedom of expression. If it were something akin to TV ratings telling you what's inside, specifically, then we can talk. BTW, why does Family Guy always tell me there are dramatic situations? Language, Yes. Violence, Yes. Drama?  Huh?
It has nothing to do with censoring work, so there would be no loss of freedom of expression.  An advisory would not stop writers from putting whatever they can in the book.  And I like the idea of something like Partial nudity, Adult Language, Violence, just like TV has set up.  This could be a thing that Diamond imposes, since the large majority of the books come through there, it could be a cover requirement to have an advisory to be distributed through Diamond.  Thinking
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #188 on: 06:05 AM | Thursday, May 21, 2009 »

Quote from: PhallicJustice on 01:05 AM | Thursday, May 21, 2009
Hey guys, loved episode 56 as always.   You mentioned getting none-comic book fans into comics during the mail.  I totally agree with Fables.  I actually have a co-worker (female) who came to me asking for some comics.  She was bored.  I first started out with books like Pride of Baghdad and Local and well, they were okay, but she was not blown away.  I then gave her Fables 1 and 2 and she was hooked.  She really connected with the characters because, well, as you said, she already knew them.  So ya, Fables is great for these people.

Again, great podcast, keep it up!
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #189 on: 04:05 PM | Wednesday, May 27, 2009 »

Quote from: Qibai on 01:05 PM | Tuesday, May 19, 2009
I'm not trying to stir the pot, but Vince and David kept trying to make a point on the show that I still think is getting glossed over. It's not that there is a rape scene in Identity Crisis, it's that the company is using the SAME characters it squarely aims at kids in a variety of kids material in an adult book. This is not about censorship or anything else, it's almost more a question of how DC or any company chooses to manage its brand.

Exactly.  I am way behind on my podcasts so don't generally comment when I get around to listening to one, but I am listening to this discussion even as I type and I want to knock my head against my desk in frustration.  It isn't the fact of the rape scene or any other incident that are associated with the "darkening" of mainstream comics, it is the fact that when a company makes the choice to market their characters toward children in the form of toys, shoes, shirts, cartoons, "Hulk hands," etc., in my opinion that company has an obligation to ensure that the widely disseminated format for presenting those characters do not present them in situations most rational people would not feel are appropriate for children.

For example, Microsoft makes money hand over fist with Halo, and we all know that there are 10-year-old kids playing the games, but Microsoft does not overtly market ancillary products that would appeal to children.  There is no "Wow, wow, Master Chief!" cartoon on Noggin nor Halo coloring books.  Yes, there are McFarlane inaction figures, but from the number of unsold figures hanging on the pegs at my local Toys R' Us, they are not appealing to children (let alone the adults collectors for which they are intended).  Similarily, there were no kid-centric action figures, toys, puzzles, etc. derived from the Watchmen movie, because Warner Bros. had sense enough to understand that they should not purposefully entice to want to see the film by selling a license to produce Rorschach plushes.  On the other hand, Star Trek's subject matter and presentation is child safe, in my opinion, and if I didn't know anything about the movie, if my kids enjoyed the new action figures and they wanted to see it, nothing would pop up on the screen that would negate the fact that the toys were marketed to the children.

Yes, yes, yes, we can all get on our "holier-than-thou high horses," and declare that all parents need to examine everything that their children come in contact with, but that isn't always a reality.  Sometimes, parents need to make some assumptions based on what they have seen.  For example, after watching Sesame Street, you can confidently buy and give to a toddler a book about Elmo and his father, pretty secure in the knowledge that the book isn't going to present Elmo being sexually abused by his father.  By the same token, if an adult sees Justice League cartoons on Cartoon Network and Boomerang, notices Justice League coloring books at Walgreen's and Justice League action figures in the toy aisle at Target, there is a subliminal statment being made of "Justice League=child safe," and by extension, Superman, Wonder Woman, the Question, etc. are also "child safe." If DC doesn't want to send that message, then they need to control which characters and concepts they make available for licensing.

This creates a conundrum.  DC (and Marvel) could stop selling licenses to manufacturers that produce products marketed to children, but doing that would mean a huge loss on income since, as far as I know, the companies are really still in existance to market their large catalogues of characters with comic books in and of themselves being a minor component.  In the alternative, DC (and Marvel), could ensure that their mainstream titles are always all-ages accessible, a simpler remedy.  This does not mean that those fans so inclined to enjoy such things would be denied seeing dead girlfriends stuffed in refrigerators or one half of a happily married couple raped and murdered, but such stories would appear in niche titles and imprints, readily available in comic book shops and book stores, on the shelf in the latter sealed in shrinkwrap.
« Last Edit: 09:05 AM | Thursday, May 28, 2009 by Lokemper » Logged
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Re: 11 O'Clock Comics Episode 56
« Reply #190 on: 03:04 PM | Wednesday, April 20, 2011 »

I'm still listening to old episodes. This week it was episode 56. A few things that struck me about this episode:

1. Loved the debate in this episode over labeling or ratings for comic books. Both sides had valid arguments. I can't agree with either side completely. This debate is right up ther with episode 33 (Vince and Sal debate Batman RIP) and the more recent episode 155 (Vince and Gabe Hardman debate the natures and definitions of sequential art and comics).

2. Loved the Mantlo love. I've got that tribute/fundraiser book, I've read it cover to cover, and should probably read it again. Mantlo wrote some of my favorite moments from the Marvel Universe in the 1980s. I'm thinking of the first Vision & Scarlet Witch mini-series and the Jack of Hearts mini-series.

3. Did you guys ever finish answering all those questions that you started to answer in episode 52? If not will you ever get back to them? Do remember where you left off?
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